Talk:Western jackdaw

Food stealing habits

If food is such that it can be easily carried away (e.g. a piece of bread), then jackdaw will take it from pigeons.  This event is easily reproduced in any city where there are both pigeons and jackdaws.  Throw a piece of bread to a pigeon when jackdaws are somewhere nearby (there should not be too many pigeons).  The pigeon will peck the piece of bread on the ground.  Then a jackdaw will come down, take the bread in the mouth and then fly away with it.

When feeding jackdaws, another phenomenon has been observed.  Sometimes a sparrow will carry away the piece of bread that a jackdaw intended to take itself.  The jackdaw would then pursue the sparrow in the air.  On one occasion, the sparrow hid itself under a parked car.  On another occasion, the sparrow let the bread fall (perhaps because the piece was too big for a sparrow), and the jackdaw then took the bread to itself.

Sometimes jackdaws are contemplating taking food from crows, although I never saw them to do it actually.  It seems that jackdaws have no fear of crows. — Monedula 12:34, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Popular Culture

Shouldn't the jackdaw in Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt be included in the list? I thought it had very strong symbolism in the book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.136.143 (talk) 05:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, sure, but if you've read the book and know about the symbolism, then it'd be great if you added the information. Go for your life.WikiLambo (talk) 15:50, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

African Genesis

In Robert Ardrey's African Genesis, he tells a Konrad Lorentz story about a particular flock of Jackdaws. It was a great story about the complications that can arise in the dominance-hierarchy of a Jackdaw flock. Would this be useful to anyone?  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  15:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I've added a bit of fair-use material from Robert Ardrey's African Genesis, all properly sourced, to the "Social behavior" subsection of "Behavior". Hope this helps.  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine Ellsworth<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  04:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks interesting, and really adds some colour to the article. thanks :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: It is a rather lengthy quote though I must say....Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Casliber! I thought about breaking it up a bit with some ad lib, but it ended up sounding too contrived. And thank you also for the lesson on the reference thing. I'm learnin'.  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine Ellsworth<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  15:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The quoted text was removed with this edit. I added it back in, slightly condensed, per the WP:PRESERVE policy, because "It is described by Lorenz in his book" does not seem to be a good reason to remove article material. Many articles contain text that is quoted from or described in other books, reports, etc. So it seems to me that if we remove all the material that is described elsewhere, there would be little left to read in Wikipedia. However, if editor Snowmanradio has more to say about this issue, I'm certainly willing to listen.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  18:19, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

• If an editor writes about a user on an article talk page, then I think it is reasonable to be informed with a message on the users talk page especially if there is a doubt that they may not be aware of the comment(s). I have not looked at this talk page for quite a while until today. Snowman (talk) 21:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
• I think that the quote by Robert Ardrey from African Genesis is too long and can be substantially shortened and brought into the article as referenced text without needing a quotation. It is said to be only slightly modified in the edit summary that returned it to the page, so I think that is highly likely to be a copyright-violation. If the text is now slightly modified, then presumably it is a misrepresentation to call it a quote. Also, is seems strange to quote a third party when the actual observations were by Lorenz who wrote about it so eloquently in his book. Snowman (talk) 20:32, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

• The full title of one of the references is "African genesis: a personal investigation into the animal origins and nature ..." by Robert Ardrey. Is this personal investigation usable as a reference on the wiki? Snowman (talk) 21:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

• Update: I have read a few small portions of the original book using the search box on this webpage, and there are some lines which are copied. I think that the whole quoted section is too close to the original and that it should be regarded as copyvio, so I have to follow the wiki guidelines and remove it immediately. Snowman (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I have looked again, Paine, although it is nice, I do think it tends to go into too much detail for what it ends up having to say, and in general, a more succinct summary is better. Much like what Snowman has just done Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:54, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

• Fair use is a relevant sentence or two; see Wikipedia:Do not include the full text of lengthy primary sources. Snowman (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, 3.5 years here and I'd never seen that page before. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:32, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I just found that wiki guideline today, but I learnt a long time ago that a reasonable test is simply to put the original and another version side by side and ask if the two are sufficiently similar to indicate that one is a copy. The original version is written in a certain style. Snowman (talk) 22:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi ya'll. I'm not all that concerned either way about the quote from Ardrey's African Genesis. I used Ardrey's work because it was about evolution and his amazing trek to visit many scientists, including Lorenz, to learn about the various traits of human beings, to include jackdaw-like social behavior to a certain extent. I myself do not consider the quote to be too long since the article itself is not very long. If it were an extensive article like India, then yes, the quote might be considered too long. As for copyvio, the law that applies here would be US copyright law, which allows for excerpts (and this story from Lorentz was but a short, brief excerpt from African Genesis. I thought the quote improved the article, and two other editors essentially agreed with me at first. If you want to leave it out, then leave it out.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  01:35, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Paine, we don't want to leave it out, just summarise it a bit more is all. It was good stuff to put in, and a fascinating bird. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

No problemo. I made a few minor fixes; hope you don't mind. Belated apologies to Snowman for assuming you were watching the article more closely, and thank you for notifying me of this discussion.

 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  07:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

• late to the party. This whole section looks iffy to me...its tone in non-encyclopedic, so much that it has a distinct odor of copyvio...bu I can't see the text; I'm blind (figuratively)... And can anyone confirm the bit about mobbings and mercy killings...? • Ling.Nut (talk) 02:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

seeds and nuts

i've seen jackdaws out the back eating nuts and seeds out of a bird feeder by eiher holding onto the perch or opening the lid. --83.70.111.220 (talk) 13:33, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

MYSTERIOUS DEATHS

acording to the bbc 50 to 100 jackdaws died mysteriously in Falkoeping parallel to the death of thousands of birds in the US http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12118839 shouldnt this be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.34.134.86 (talk) 03:05, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Age

"Ages and sexes are alike" - I don't understand what this means. The Aging and Sexing pdf linked on the page shows differences between the birds at different ages. Also it's nowhere on the page how long they actually live, does anyone know? --78.27.11.2 (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Collaboration nomination

Jackdaw for July 2011

Nominated on 18 April 2011;

1. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
2. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 19:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
3. —innotata 18:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Comments:

• I've nominated this as I have material which can get it finished, but as I am in Australia I lack some familiarity with it so I'd appreciate some input. I see this as a low-maintenance alternative to parrot, which might be quiet ambitious. I am also not sure of whether Kim and Snowman are keen to spend time improving parrot now, or whether we defer that for some time. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Translation

Re: File:Borch CoA.png. This birds in this coat of arms have yellow beaks and do not look like Jackdaws. Has something been lost or gained during language translation? Snowman (talk) 13:29, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree they look more like Alpine Choughs...something to look into. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Removed from page while being investigated. Snowman (talk) 09:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Web of Science search

Typing in "Jackdaw" yielded 94 results: Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:04, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

1. Title: What You See Is What You Get-Reloaded: Can Jackdaws (Corvus monedula) Find Hidden Food Through Exclusion? Author(s): Schloegl C Source: JOURNAL OF COMPARATIVE PSYCHOLOGY Volume: 125 Issue: 2 Pages: 162-174 Published: MAY 2011 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. ncsjfreed (talk Ref# 63. --Ncsjfreed (talk) 04:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

2. Title: Predators and nest success of Sky Larks Alauda arvensis in large arable fields in the Czech Republic Author(s): Praus L, Weidinger K Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 57 Issue: 4 Pages: 525-530 Published: 2010 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

3. Title: Falconer activities as a bird dispersal tool at Deblin Airfield (E Poland) Author(s): Kitowski I, Grzywaczewski G, Cwiklak J, et al. Source: TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH PART D-TRANSPORT AND ENVIRONMENT Volume: 16 Issue: 1 Pages: 82-86 Published: JAN 2011 Times Cited: 0

 Not done article about using falconers to scare away a variety of birds from airfields, and concludes another method should be utilised. Think we can skip this one Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:45, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

4. Title: Long-term spatio-temporal dynamics of corvids wintering in urban parks of Warsaw, Poland Author(s): Zmihorski M, Halba R, Mazgajski TD Source: ORNIS FENNICA Volume: 87 Issue: 2 Pages: 61-68 Published: 2010 Times Cited: 1

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

5. Title: JACKDAW controls epidermal patterning in the Arabidopsis root meristem through a non-cell-autonomous mechanism Author(s): Hassan H, Scheres B, Blilou I Source: DEVELOPMENT Volume: 137 Issue: 9 Pages: 1523-1529 Published: MAY 1 2010 Times Cited: 3

 Not done unrelated. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

6. Title: Long-term study on interactions between Tawny Owls Strix aluco, Jackdaws Corvus monedula and Northern Goshawks Accipiter gentilis Author(s): Koning FJ, Koning HJ, Baeyens G Conference Information: 4th World Owl Conference, OCT 31-NOV 04, 2007 Groningen, NETHERLANDS Source: ARDEA Volume: 97 Issue: 4 Special Issue: Sp. Iss. SI Pages: 453-456 Published: 2009 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

7. Title: Report on rare birds in Spain 2007 Author(s): Dies JI, Lorenzo JA, Gutierrez R, et al. Source: ARDEOLA Volume: 56 Issue: 2 Pages: 309-344 Published: DEC 2009 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:04, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

8. Title: KLEPTOPARASITISM AND TEMPORAL SEGREGATION OF SYMPATRIC CORVIDS FORAGING IN A REFUSE DUMP Author(s): Baglione V, Canestrari D Source: AUK Volume: 126 Issue: 3 Pages: 566-578 Published: JUL 2009 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

9. Title: Yolk androgens and the development of avian immunity: an experiment in jackdaws (Corvus monedula) Author(s): Sandell MI, Tobler M, Hasselquist D Source: JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL BIOLOGY Volume: 212 Issue: 6 Pages: 815-822 Published: MAR 15 2009 Times Cited: 4

 Not done - this one impresses as really specialised and beyond the interest of the lay-reader. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:54, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

10. Title: Functional morphology and integration of corvid skulls - a 3D geometric morphometric approach Author(s): Kulemeyer C, Asbahr K, Gunz P, et al. Source: FRONTIERS IN ZOOLOGY Volume: 6 Article Number: 2 Published: JAN 7 2009 Times Cited: 4

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

11. Title: Preferential learning from non-affiliated individuals in jackdaws (Corvus monedula) Author(s): Schwab C, Bugnyar T, Kotrschal K Source: BEHAVIOURAL PROCESSES Volume: 79 Issue: 3 Pages: 148-155 Published: NOV 2008 Times Cited: 4

12. Title: Long-term population trends of corvids wintering in urban parks in central Poland Author(s): Mazgajski TD, Zmihorski M, Halba R, et al. Source: POLISH JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 56 Issue: 3 Pages: 521-526 Published: 2008 Times Cited: 1

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

13. Title: Short-term observational spatial memory in Jackdaws (Corvus monedula) and Ravens (Corvus corax) Author(s): Scheid C, Bugnyar T Source: ANIMAL COGNITION Volume: 11 Issue: 4 Pages: 691-698 Published: OCT 2008 Times Cited: 3

14. Title: Nest occupation and prey grabbing by saker falcon (Falco cherrug) on power lines in the Province of Vojvodina (Serbia) Author(s): Puzovic S Source: ARCHIVES OF BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES Volume: 60 Issue: 2 Pages: 271-277 Published: 2008 Times Cited: 0

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

15. Title: Variation in clutch size, egg size variability and reproductive output in the Desert Finch (Rhodospiza obsolera) Author(s): Yosef R, Zduniak P Source: JOURNAL OF ARID ENVIRONMENTS Volume: 72 Issue: 9 Pages: 1631-1635 Published: SEP 2008 Times Cited: 1

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

16. Title: Variation in egg dimensions of the Tree Sparrow (Passer montanus L.) in north-western Croatia Author(s): Dolenec Z, Delic A, Kralj J, et al. Source: POLISH JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 55 Issue: 4 Pages: 841-845 Published: 2007 Times Cited: 2

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

17. Title: 'Return of the jackdaw' Author(s): Mathys T Source: AMERICAN POETRY REVIEW Volume: 37 Issue: 1 Pages: 29-29 Published: JAN-FEB 2008 Times Cited: 0

 Not done nice poem but does not appear to be notable. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

18. Title: Arabidopsis JACKDAW and MAGPIE zinc finger proteins delimit asymmetric cell division and stabilize tissue boundaries by restricting SHORT-ROOT action Author(s): Welch D, Hassan H, Blilou I, et al. Source: GENES & DEVELOPMENT Volume: 21 Issue: 17 Pages: 2196-2204 Published: SEP 1 2007 Times Cited: 31

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

19. Title: The role of food- and object-sharing in the development of social bonds in juvenile jackdaws (Corvus monedula) Author(s): von Bayern AMP, de Kort SR, Clayton NS, et al. Source: BEHAVIOUR Volume: 144 Pages: 711-733 Part: Part 6 Published: JUN 2007 Times Cited: 11

 Done was already added. Added additional relevant information ncsjfreed

20. Title: Density and age of breeding pairs influence feral pigeon, Columba livia reproduction Author(s): Hetmanski T, Barkowska M Source: FOLIA ZOOLOGICA Volume: 56 Issue: 1 Pages: 71-83 Published: 2007 Times Cited: 2

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

21. Title: A mechanical model of wing and theoretical estimate of taper factor for three gliding birds Author(s): Zahedi MS, Khan MYA Source: JOURNAL OF BIOSCIENCES Volume: 32 Issue: 2 Pages: 351-361 Published: MAR 2007 Times Cited: 1

 Not done - focusses on mathematics rather than the bird. Hard to get a layperson's angle on this one. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:55, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

22. Title: Cognitive adaptations of social bonding in birds Author(s): Emery NJ, Seed AM, von Bayern AMP, et al. Source: PHILOSOPHICAL TRANSACTIONS OF THE ROYAL SOCIETY B-BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES Volume: 362 Issue: 1480 Pages: 489-505 Published: APR 29 2007 Times Cited: 52

 Done already added Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

23. Title: Ultrastructural study of liver cells from rooks living in ecologically unfavorable areas Author(s): Kalashnikova AM, Fadeeva EO Source: BIOLOGY BULLETIN Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Pages: 99-106 Published: MAR-APR 2006 Times Cited: 0

 Not done - jackdaw mentioned as it is used as control only. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:55, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

24. Title: Characterization of two novel polyomaviruses of birds by using multiply primed rolling-circle amplification of their genomes Author(s): Johne R, Wittig W, Fernandez-de-Luco D, et al. Source: JOURNAL OF VIROLOGY Volume: 80 Issue: 7 Pages: 3523-3531 Published: APR 2006 Times Cited: 24

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

25. Title: First record of Eurasian Jackdaw (Corvus monedula) parasitism by the Great Spotted Cuckoo (Clamator glandarius) in Israel Author(s): Charter M, Bouskila A, Aviel S, et al. Source: WILSON BULLETIN Volume: 117 Issue: 2 Pages: 201-204 Published: JUN 2005 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

26. Title: Evaluating the Breeding Bird Survey for producing national population size and density estimates Author(s): Newson SE, Woodburn RJW, Noble DG, et al. Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 52 Pages: 42-54 Part: Part 1 Published: MAR 2005 Times Cited: 28

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

27. Title: The potential role of wildlife in the epidemiology of paratuberculosis in domestic animals Author(s): Greig A, Beard PM, Daniels MJ, et al. Conference Information: 7th International Colloquium on Paratuberculosis, JUN 12-14, 2002 Bilbao, SPAIN Source: PROCEEDINGS OF THE SEVENTH INTERNATIONAL COLLOQUIUM ON PARATUBERCULOSIS Pages: 358-360 Published: 2003 Times Cited: 1

 Not done - the finding suggests the paratuberculosis organism passed through the digestive tract of the bird only, as it did for some other birds. Mentioning it in a brief summary might be misleading, so best reserved for a relevant microbiology article. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:10, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

28. Title: Can intraspecific brood parasitism be detected using egg morphology only? Author(s): Adahl E, Lindstrom J, Ruxton GD, et al. Source: JOURNAL OF AVIAN BIOLOGY Volume: 35 Issue: 4 Pages: 360-364 Published: JUL 2004 Times Cited: 11

 Not done negative finding, and main thrust of article is assessment. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:14, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

29. Title: Evidence for declines in populations of grassland-associated birds in marginal upland areas of Britain Author(s): Henderson IG, Fuller RJ, Conway GJ, et al. Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 51 Pages: 12-19 Part: Part 1 Published: MAR 2004 Times Cited: 17

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:48, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

30. Title: Nest predators affect spatial dynamics of breeding red-backed shrikes (Lanius collurio) Author(s): Roos S, Part T Source: JOURNAL OF ANIMAL ECOLOGY Volume: 73 Issue: 1 Pages: 117-127 Published: JAN 2004 Times Cited: 30

 Not done negative finding WRT Jackdaws, mainly red-backed shrikes playing cat-and-mouse with nesting sites with the larger corvids. Interesting study though. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:53, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

31. Title: Sex-specific hatching order, growth rates and fledging success in jackdaws Corvus monedula Author(s): Arnold KE, Griffiths R Source: JOURNAL OF AVIAN BIOLOGY Volume: 34 Issue: 3 Pages: 275-281 Published: SEP 2003 Times Cited: 21

32. Title: Genetic and behavioural analysis in three typical colonies of Jackdaws (Corvus monedula) Author(s): Fulgione D, Rippa D, De Luca A, et al. Source: ETHOLOGY ECOLOGY & EVOLUTION Volume: 15 Issue: 2 Pages: 183-189 Published: JUL 2003 Times Cited: 1

33. Title: The effect of corvid shooting on the populations of owls, kestrels and cuckoos in Cyprus, with notes on corvid diet Author(s): Hadjisterkotis E Source: ZEITSCHRIFT FUR JAGDWISSENSCHAFT Volume: 49 Issue: 1 Pages: 50-60 Published: MAR 2003 Times Cited: 2

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

34. Title: Preventing bird damage to wrapped baled silage during short- and long-term storage Author(s): McNamara K, O'Kiely P, Whelan J, et al. Source: WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN Volume: 30 Issue: 3 Pages: 809-815 Published: FAL 2002 Times Cited: 0

35. Title: Interactions between the red squirrel (Sciurus vulgaris), great tit (Parus major) and jackdaw (Corvus monedula) whilst using nest boxes Author(s): Shuttleworth CM Source: JOURNAL OF ZOOLOGY Volume: 255 Pages: 269-272 Part: Part 2 Published: OCT 2001 Times Cited: 0

 Not doneNot related- more to do with squirrels. The study showed that the jackdaw has the

capacity to dominate nest boxes during the spring months despite the high density of red squirrels within the reserve. --Ncsjfreed (talk) 03:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

36. Title: Within-clutch repeatability of egg dimensions in the jackdaw Corvus monedula: a study based on a museum collection Author(s): Tryjanowski P, Kuczynski L, Antczak M, et al. Source: BIOLOGIA Volume: 56 Issue: 2 Pages: 211-215 Published: APR 2001 Times Cited: 4

 Done one fact added, other stuff a bit vague. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

37. Title: Gliding flight in a jackdaw: A wind tunnel study Author(s): Rosen M, Hedenstrom A Source: JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL BIOLOGY Volume: 204 Issue: 6 Pages: 1153-1166 Published: MAR 2001 Times Cited: 21

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

38. Title: Paratuberculosis infection of nonruminant wildlife in Scotland Author(s): Beard PM, Daniels MJ, Henderson D, et al. Source: JOURNAL OF CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY Volume: 39 Issue: 4 Pages: 1517-1521 Published: APR 2001 Times Cited: 107

 Not done same researchers as above. reasons outlaid there. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

39. Title: A comparison of four corvid species in a working and reference memory task using a radial maze Author(s): Gould-Beierle K Source: JOURNAL OF COMPARATIVE PSYCHOLOGY Volume: 114 Issue: 4 Pages: 347-356 Published: DEC 2000 Times Cited: 20

40. Title: Strict monogamy in a semi-colonial passerine: the Jackdaw Corvus monedula Author(s): Henderson IG, Hart PJB, Burke T Source: JOURNAL OF AVIAN BIOLOGY Volume: 31 Issue: 2 Pages: 177-182 Published: JUN 2000 Times Cited: 16

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

41. Title: 'Jackdaw Jiving' Author(s): Wiman C Source: POETRY Volume: 174 Issue: 5 Pages: 286-298 Published: AUG 1999 Times Cited: 0

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

42. Title: A comparative study of breeding traits in colonial birds Author(s): Beauchamp G Source: EVOLUTIONARY ECOLOGY RESEARCH Volume: 1 Issue: 2 Pages: 251-260 Published: FEB 1999 Times Cited: 11

 Not done - no idea how this got listed as no jackdaws in it...Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

43. Title: Cooperative hunting of jackdaws by the Lanner Falcon (Falco biarmicus) Author(s): Leonardi G Source: JOURNAL OF RAPTOR RESEARCH Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Pages: 123-127 Published: JUN 1999 Times Cited: 4

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

44. Title: Siegel 'Devil's Golf Course', 'Jackdaw', 'Eclipse', 'Tracking' - Da-Capo-8-224069 (Smith-Quartet, Harry Sparnaay, Singcircle, Aarhus-Symphony-Orchestra, Gregory Rose) Author(s): Smith K Source: STRAD Volume: 109 Issue: 1293 Pages: 66-66 Published: JAN 1998 Times Cited: 0

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

45. Title: 'JACKDAW RIDGE' Author(s): THOMAS R Source: SHENANDOAH Volume: 46 Issue: 3 Pages: 72-72 Published: FAL 1996 Times Cited: 0

 Not done unrelated Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:22, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

46. Title: Effects of experimental food provisioning on reproduction in the Jackdaw Corvus monedula, a semi-colonial species Author(s): Soler M, Soler JJ Source: IBIS Volume: 138 Issue: 3 Pages: 377-383 Published: JUL 1996 Times Cited: 31

47. Title: Population trends of Jays, Magpies, Jackdaws and Carrion Crows in the United Kingdom Author(s): Gregory RD, Marchant JH Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 43 Pages: 28-37 Part: Part 1 Published: MAR 1996 Times Cited: 49

48. Title: DOMINANCE, FOOD ACQUISITION AND REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS IN A MONOGAMOUS PASSERINE - THE JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA Author(s): HENDERSON IG, HART PJB Source: JOURNAL OF AVIAN BIOLOGY Volume: 26 Issue: 3 Pages: 217-224 Published: SEP 1995 Times Cited: 6

49. Title: INTERSPECIFIC DIFFERENCES IN MIXED-FUNCTION OXIDASE ACTIVITY IN BIRDS - A TOOL TO IDENTIFY SPECIES AT RISK Author(s): FOSSI MC, MASSI A, LARI L, et al. Conference Information: Regional Meeting of the Society-of-Ecotoxicology-and-Environmental-Safety on Environmental Toxicology - Hazards to the Environment and Man in the Mediterranean Region, SEP 26-29, 1993 ROME, ITALY Source: SCIENCE OF THE TOTAL ENVIRONMENT Volume: 171 Issue: 1-3 Pages: 221-226 Published: OCT 27 1995 Times Cited: 3

50. Title: INTERSPECIES DIFFERENCES IN MIXED-FUNCTION OXIDASE ACTIVITY IN BIRDS - RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FEEDING-HABITS, DETOXICATION ACTIVITIES AND ORGANOCHLORINE ACCUMULATION Author(s): FOSSI MC, MASSI A, LARI L, et al. Source: ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION Volume: 90 Issue: 1 Pages: 15-24 Published: 1995 Times Cited: 41 51. Title: INTRACLUTCH EGG-MASS VARIATION AND HATCHING ASYNCHRONY IN THE JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA Author(s): HEEB P Source: ARDEA Volume: 82 Issue: 2 Pages: 287-297 Published: 1994 Times Cited: 8

52. Title: COLONIAL BREEDING AND NEST PREDATION IN THE JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA USING OLD BLACK WOODPECKER DRYOCOPUS-MARTIUS HOLES Author(s): JOHNSSON K Source: IBIS Volume: 136 Issue: 3 Pages: 313-317 Published: JUL 1994 Times Cited: 5

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:06, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

53. Title: MEMORY FOR SPATIAL AND OBJECT-SPECIFIC CUES IN FOOD-STORING AND NONSTORING BIRDS Author(s): CLAYTON NS, KREBS JR Source: JOURNAL OF COMPARATIVE PHYSIOLOGY A-SENSORY NEURAL AND BEHAVIORAL PHYSIOLOGY Volume: 174 Issue: 3 Pages: 371-379 Published: MAR 1994 Times Cited: 166

54. Title: GRIT INGESTION AND CEREAL CONSUMPTION IN 5 CORVID SPECIES Author(s): SOLER JJ, SOLER M, MARTINEZ JG Source: ARDEA Volume: 81 Issue: 2 Pages: 143-149 Published: 1993 Times Cited: 4

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

55. Title: DOES THE RISK OF NEST PREDATION AFFECT CLUTCH SIZE IN THE JACKDAW CORVUS MONEDULA Author(s): SOLER M, SOLER JJ Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 40 Pages: 232-235 Part: Part 3 Published: NOV 1993 Times Cited: 2

 Not done negative finding. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:57, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

56. Title: ISOLATION AND PRIMARY STRUCTURE OF A NOVEL AVIAN PANCREATIC-POLYPEPTIDE FROM 5 SPECIES OF EURASIAN CROW Author(s): MARKS NJ, SHAW C, HALTON DW, et al. Source: REGULATORY PEPTIDES Volume: 47 Issue: 2 Pages: 187-194 Published: SEP 3 1993 Times Cited: 9

 Not done I think we can draw the line at this...waaaay too specialised. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

57. Title: A SUBPOPULATION OF LARGE CALBINDIN-LIKE IMMUNOPOSITIVE NEURONS IS PRESENT IN THE HIPPOCAMPAL-FORMATION IN FOOD-STORING BUT NOT IN NONSTORING SPECIES OF BIRD Author(s): MONTAGNESE CM, KREBS JR, SZEKELY AD, et al. Source: BRAIN RESEARCH Volume: 614 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 291-300 Published: JUN 18 1993 Times Cited: 26

 Not done I think we can draw the line at this...waaaay too specialised. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

58. Title: INTESTINAL, SEGMENTED, FILAMENTOUS BACTERIA IN A WIDE-RANGE OF VERTEBRATE SPECIES Author(s): KLAASEN HLBM, KOOPMAN JP, VANDENBRINK ME, et al. Source: LABORATORY ANIMALS Volume: 27 Issue: 2 Pages: 141-150 Published: APR 1993 Times Cited: 32

 Done added Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:57, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

59. Title: DEVELOPMENT OF HIPPOCAMPAL SPECIALIZATION IN A FOOD-STORING BIRD Author(s): HEALY SD, KREBS KR Source: BEHAVIOURAL BRAIN RESEARCH Volume: 53 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 127-131 Published: FEB 26 1993 Times Cited: 54

60. Title: INTERSPECIFIC COEXISTENCE IN CORVIDS IN AN ALPINE VALLEY OF NORTHWESTERN ITALY Author(s): ROLANDO A, GIACHELLO P Source: BOLLETTINO DI ZOOLOGIA Volume: 59 Issue: 3 Pages: 281-288 Published: 1992 Times Cited: 5

 Not done says they are often found in flocks with Rooks - already mentioned in secondary source. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

61. Title: LATITUDINAL TRENDS IN CLUTCH SIZE IN SINGLE BROODED HOLE NESTING BIRD SPECIES - A NEW HYPOTHESIS Author(s): SOLER M, SOLER JJ Source: ARDEA Volume: 80 Issue: 2 Pages: 293-300 Published: 1992 Times Cited: 10

62. Title: BREEDING BIRD COMMUNITIES OF BROADLEAVED PLANTATION AND ANCIENT PASTURE WOODLANDS OF THE NEW FOREST Author(s): SMITH KW, BURGES DJ, PARKS RA Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 39 Pages: 132-141 Part: Part 2 Published: JUL 1992 Times Cited: 6

 Not done reiterates aspects already discussed in secondary sources Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:56, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

63. Title: FOOD STORING AND THE HIPPOCAMPUS IN CORVIDS - AMOUNT AND VOLUME ARE CORRELATED Author(s): HEALY SD, KREBS JR Source: PROCEEDINGS OF THE ROYAL SOCIETY OF LONDON SERIES B-BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES Volume: 248 Issue: 1323 Pages: 241-245 Published: JUN 22 1992 Times Cited: 91

64. Title: CORVID DENSITY AND NEST PREDATION IN RELATION TO FOREST FRAGMENTATION - A LANDSCAPE PERSPECTIVE Author(s): ANDREN H Source: ECOLOGY Volume: 73 Issue: 3 Pages: 794-804 Published: JUN 1992 Times Cited: 297

65. Title: THE THIEVING MAGPIE (AND JACKDAW) Author(s): [Anon] Source: LANCET Volume: 337 Issue: 8745 Pages: 844-844 Published: APR 6 1991 Times Cited: 0

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

66. Title: NESTLING PERIOD VARIATION IN JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA IN RELATION TO BROOD SIZE Author(s): SOLER M Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 36 Pages: 73-76 Part: Part 2 Published: JUL 1989 Times Cited: 1

67. Title: EGG SIZE VARIATION IN THE JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA IN GRANADA, SPAIN Author(s): SOLER M Source: BIRD STUDY Volume: 35 Pages: 69-76 Part: Part 1 Published: MAR 1988 Times Cited: 10

68. Title: HATCHING ASYNCHRONY REDUCES PARENTAL INVESTMENT IN THE JACKDAW Author(s): GIBBONS DW Source: JOURNAL OF ANIMAL ECOLOGY Volume: 56 Issue: 2 Pages: 403-414 Published: JUN 1987 Times Cited: 59

69. Title: APPARENTLY BLIND JACKDAW FEEDING, PREENING AND FLYING Author(s): ROBERTSON P Source: BRITISH BIRDS Volume: 80 Issue: 5 Pages: 249-250 Published: MAY 1987 Times Cited: 0

70. Title: DAILY DISTRIBUTION OF SLEEP STATES IN THE JACKDAW, CORVUS-MONEDULA Author(s): SZYMCZAK JT Source: CHRONOBIOLOGIA Volume: 13 Issue: 3 Pages: 227-235 Published: JUL-SEP 1986 Times Cited: 8

71. Title: THE WAKE OF A JACKDAW (CORVUS-MONEDULA) IN SLOW FLIGHT Author(s): SPEDDING GR Source: JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL BIOLOGY Volume: 125 Pages: 287-307 Published: SEP 1986 Times Cited: 80

72. Title: BIOENERGETIC INVESTIGATIONS OF THE ONTOGENY OF THE JACKDAW (CORVUS-MONEDULA) Author(s): KAMINSKI P Source: JOURNAL FUR ORNITHOLOGIE Volume: 127 Issue: 3 Pages: 315-329 Published: JUL 1986 Times Cited: 1

73. Title: IRIS COLOR OF DAURIAN JACKDAW Author(s): FISHER D Source: BRITISH BIRDS Volume: 79 Issue: 5 Pages: 252-252 Published: MAY 1986 Times Cited: 0

 Not done wrong species. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

74. Title: PSYCHIATRISTS EDUCATION IN PSYCHOLOGY - JACKDAW OR SPONGE Author(s): KOPELMAN MD Source: PSYCHOLOGICAL MEDICINE Volume: 16 Issue: 1 Pages: 13-17 Published: FEB 1986 Times Cited: 2

 Not done unrelated. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:22, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

75. Title: THE DIMORPHISM OF COLOEUS-DAUURICUS, THE ASIAN JACKDAW Author(s): JOLLIE M Source: JOURNAL FUR ORNITHOLOGIE Volume: 126 Issue: 3 Pages: 303-305 Published: 1985 Times Cited: 0

 Not done wrong species. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

76. Title: CHANGES OF BODY-WEIGHT, CHEMICAL-COMPOSITION AND ENERGETIC VALUE IN THE NESTLINGS OF THE JACKDAW, CORVUS-MONEDULA L, DURING THEIR DEVELOPMENT IN THE NEST Author(s): KAMINSKI P, KONARZEWSKI M Source: EKOLOGIA POLSKA-POLISH JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 32 Issue: 1 Pages: 125-139 Published: 1984 Times Cited: 4

77. Title: PHOTOSPOT .6. DAURIAN JACKDAW Author(s): WALLACE DIM Source: BRITISH BIRDS Volume: 77 Issue: 9 Pages: 417-418 Published: 1984 Times Cited: 0

 Not done wrong species. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:44, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

78. Title: JACKDAW EATING BURNET MOTHS Author(s): MCCANCH N, MCCANCH M Source: BRITISH BIRDS Volume: 77 Issue: 2 Pages: 75-75 Published: 1984 Times Cited: 0

79. Title: POSTNATAL-GROWTH AND ORGAN DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELDFARE AND THE JACKDAW (TURDUS-PILARIS AND CORVUS-MONEDULA) Author(s): LILJA C Source: GROWTH Volume: 46 Issue: 4 Pages: 367-387 Published: 1982 Times Cited: 13

80. Title: THE 'JACKDAW' + TRANSLATED FROM THE GERMAN BY LESSER,RIKA Author(s): HESSE H Source: ANTAEUS Issue: 45-4 Pages: 138-143 Published: 1982 Times Cited: 0

81. Title: 'JACKDAW SONGS' Author(s): SOMMERS P Source: DRAMA REVIEW Volume: 25 Issue: 2 Pages: 124-126 Published: 1981 Times Cited: 0

82. Title: 'JACKDAW SONGS' Author(s): PERCIVAL J Source: DANCE MAGAZINE Volume: 55 Issue: 9 Pages: 44-45 Published: 1981 Times Cited: 0

83. Title: THE JACKDAW AND THE PEACOCK - PHAEDRUS 'FABLES' 1.3 - PHAEDRUS, SEJANUS, OR PALLAS Author(s): HAMBLENNE P Source: ETUDES CLASSIQUES Volume: 49 Issue: 2 Pages: 125-133 Published: 1981 Times Cited: 0

84. Title: RESOURCE PARTITIONING IN MAGPIE PICA-PICA AND JACKDAW CORVUS-MONEDULA DURING THE BREEDING-SEASON Author(s): HOGSTEDT G Source: ORNIS SCANDINAVICA Volume: 11 Issue: 2 Pages: 110-115 Published: 1980 Times Cited: 9

85. Title: SOCIAL-BEHAVIOR OF JACKDAW, CORVUS-MONEDULA, IN RELATION TO ITS NICHE Author(s): ROELL A Source: BEHAVIOUR Volume: 64 Pages: 1-& Part: Part 1-2 Published: 1978 Times Cited: 59

86. Title: 'JACKDAW' - HILL,C Author(s): CALLENDAR N Source: NEW YORK TIMES BOOK REVIEW Volume: 81 Issue: 13 Pages: 32-32 Published: 1976 Times Cited: 0

 Not done review of suspense novel. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

87. Title: 'JACKDAW' - HILL,C Author(s): JAMES PD Source: TLS-THE TIMES LITERARY SUPPLEMENT Issue: 3837 Pages: 1079-1079 Published: 1975 Times Cited: 0

 Not done review of suspense novel. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

88. Title: RATE OF DEVELOPMENT OF DIGESTIVE-SYSTEM IN JACKDAW (CORVUS-MONEDULA L) AND ROOK (CORVUS-FRUGILEGUS L) IN POSTNATAL-PERIOD Author(s): VORONOV NP Source: ZHURNAL OBSHCHEI BIOLOGII Volume: 35 Issue: 6 Pages: 934-943 Published: 1974 Times Cited: 2

 Not done obscure Russian article highly specialised and of little interest to lay reader. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

89. Title: CHEMOTAXONOMY OF CORVIDAE - UROPYGIAL GLAND FAT FROM JACKDAW (COLOEUS-MONEDULA), CARRION CROW (CORVUS-CORONE-CORONE) AND HOODED CROW (CORVUS-CORONE-CORVIX) Author(s): JACOB J, GRIMMER G Source: ZEITSCHRIFT FUR NATURFORSCHUNG C-A JOURNAL OF BIOSCIENCES Volume: C 28 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 75-77 Published: 1973 Times Cited: 14

90. Title: THE FOOD AND FEEDING-BEHAVIOR OF THE JACKDAW, ROOK AND CARRION CROW Author(s): LOCKIE JD Source: JOURNAL OF ANIMAL ECOLOGY Volume: 25 Issue: 2 Pages: 421-428 Published: 1956 Times Cited: 32

 Done already in. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

91. Title: ROOK AND JACKDAW MIGRATIONS OBSERVED IN GERMANY, 1942-1945 Author(s): WATERHOUSE MJ Source: IBIS Volume: 91 Issue: 1 Pages: 1-16 Published: 1949 Times Cited: 1

92. Title: The relationship of the interstitial cell to the generative proportion in the testicle of the jackdaw (colacus monedula) Author(s): Stieve H Source: ARCHIV FUR ENTWICKLUNGSMECHANIK DER ORGANISMEN Volume: 45 Issue: 3 Pages: 455-497 Published: MAY 1919 Times Cited: 11

 Not done esoteric and old. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

93. Title: The development of the ovarian egg in the jackdaw (Colaeus monedula) A contribution to the question of physiological mode in the ovary of happening revertive formation processes Author(s): Stieve H Source: ARCHIV FUR MIKROSKOPISCHE ANATOMIE Volume: 92 Issue: 1/2 Pages: 137-289 Part: Part 2 Published: NOV 1918 Times Cited: 3

 Not done esoteric and old. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

94. Title: Stomach movements in crows and jackdaw and the influence of vagal on them. Author(s): Mangold E Source: PFLUGERS ARCHIV FUR DIE GESAMTE PHYSIOLOGIE DES MENSCHEN UND DER TIERE Volume: 138 Issue: 1/3 Pages: 1-13 Published: FEB 1911 Times Cited: 2

 Not done given age, and only cited twice, I suspect this is way too specialised and not worth adding (even if I could find it!). Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

• Typing in "monedula" yielded 116 results - as far as I know the Jackdaw is the only organism with that as the species name - some extra articles are:

3. Title: Effects of the risk of competition and predation on large secondary cavity breeders Author(s): Charter M, Izhaki I, Leshem Y Source: JOURNAL OF ORNITHOLOGY Volume: 151 Issue: 4 Pages: 791-795 Published: OCT 2010 Times Cited: 0

 Not done tricky to find something here to add to the article for general readership. Test study/hypothetical? Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Title: Food sharing in jackdaws, Corvus monedula: what, why and with whom? Author(s): De Kort SR, Emery NJ, Clayton NS Source: ANIMAL BEHAVIOUR Volume: 72 Pages: 297-304 Part: Part 2 Published: AUG 2006 Times Cited: 11

 Done added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Common name

IOC name is Western Jackdaw. Is this controversial? Snowman (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

No idea. Did we ever change it before and revert I wonder....Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:53, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Without a specific name, I guess the Jackdaw page could be mistaken for Daurian Jackdaw. I am also confused about the genus name being different on en Wiki and Commons. - is is Corvus or Coloeus? Snowman (talk) 14:40, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Most categories on Commons use the IOC "taxonomy", so it probably ought to be changed (though most other languages use Corvus, it appears). Not a big deal really having a different taxonomy on Commons. —innotata 15:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll place a note on the wikiproject discussion page in case anyone has any objections,and if not then move it in a few days. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:30, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

This article has an inconsistency: Coloeus monedula in introduction and Corvus monedula in the taxobox. Snowman (talk) 13:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Fixed now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Help to nominate this article

Hi, I am a master's student doing an elective on Wikipedia, learning its ins and outs. I have been researching articles of interest to nominate for GA status, as my preliminary assessment of the article would indicate that it fits the criteria. I would like your feedback on when/how to nominate this article. Your input would be appreciated.--Ncsjfreed (talk) 21:14, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Aha, glad to see someone's interested. Yes we're actively working towards GA. I was musing on nominating it soon, but am aware there is alot of literature about its social behaviour that I intended reading and adding before doing this. There are some other bits and pieces so I was making my way thru the peer-reviewed literature above. If you have uni/fulltext/library access we can get through the fulltexts faster with two (or more) of us looking at them. The idea is to make it as complete as possible before nominating, to make teh process easier. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I will try to attend to a few of the articles, and sign off on them. I have fulltext access, so should be able to download the relevant journal articles.--Ncsjfreed (talk) 00:15, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Great, once I have looked at something and then figured out whether we include it or not, I make a note afterwards (see the ticks and crosses above) so I can keep track. I can help with the formatting. I am not sure what your course requires, but another article on the cusp of GA is House Sparrow, if you want an experience of "doing it yourself" so to speak. Either way is cool. If you wanna do that one a few of us can help there too. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:52, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Ok, then, happy to continue with Jackdaw. If I find add'l relevant behavioural info, do you prefer to place it on the discussion page before inserting it directly into the article? --Ncsjfreed (talk) 01:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

No no, just go for it and I'll see how you're going. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Jackdaw's wedding

See BBC. Is there anything more about Jackdaws being noisy when there is a Jackdaw wedding? Snowman (talk) 22:23, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I have never heard of that expression. If it is described somewhere it'd be good to add. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:04, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

All I could find was that a Jackdaw wedding is several Jackdaws form a flock and just be noisy. Not any trustworthy sources, though. Guyinasuit5517 (talk) 00:21, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

(sigh) thanks for looking anyway. oh well.... Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The BBC radio 4 program anecdotally implied that knowledge has been handed down the generations about Jackdaw weddings in Wales. Jackdaw weddings sound plausible to me considering that Konrad Lorenz's described that one female Jackdaw rocketed up the Jackdaw social ladder in his book King Solomon's Ring after she "married" a high ranking male Jackdaw. The book records that one day she was one of the lowest racked Jackdaw's and the next day, after her "marriage", she was one of the top ranked Jackdaws. It would be good to have more evidence in corroboration, including something form Welsh folklore, before anything is added to the article.. Snowman (talk) 11:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Request of revision / removal: "though males and females pair-bond for life and pairs stay together within flocks"

Aside from the citation being missing (Added citation needed), contemporary biological research has indicated there is no such thing as a bird that mates for life. Several species were investigated and it was found, while thought to be monogamous, that they all had offspring from different mates.

I'm afraid I can't access the database from here right now, so I can't provide a direct link to the study. It's been around a while now though.

94.214.196.189 (talk) 13:04, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

fair point - I don't think that came from the collins book. I am trawling through the refs and will see if anything turns up and if not, delete. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:19, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Other language versions

The whole category is hidden in the left bar. There are versions of this article in many other languages and those versions could not be reached from the English article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.206.11.194 (talk) 14:23, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Range map

The range map could be improved to show which regions are occupied by which subspecies. Snowman (talk) 13:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree that I would like to do that as long as I could find one.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Title

Wasn't there some discussion about, and consensus to, move the article to "Western Jackdaw", or maybe "Eurasian Jackdaw"? Maias (talk) 00:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I have a slow connection now so looking is going to be very time consuming, but we did and not sure how complete the consensus was. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Right then, where were we? Aaah here. Right then. Moving.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Scientific name...Coloeus vs Corvus

Ok, most places still have Corvus monedula, but IOC has listed as Coloeus monedula based on Rasmussen 2005. I'd followed this as reasoning seemed sound. Does anyone have any strong opinions either way? Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:13, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Happy to change genus to Coloeus for the two jackdaws. Maias (talk) 12:24, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

My preference is to stick with scientific consensus and leave as Corvus......IOC is used for english names and not for classification as has been previously explained to me.....Pvmoutside (talk) 18:44, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

We are supposed to reflect usage, not initiate it. I would tend to stick with Corvus for now, but I wouldn't go to the stake for it Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:25, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

True, I guess it depends on how notable the study is proposing change. Hence IOC reckons Rasmussen 2005 is pretty notable...anyway, it is still fairly recent in publishing terms, and it is really only a matter of delineation of the genus boundary and whether or not it includes the two early offshoot Jackdaws. So retaining as Corvus is not misleading anyway. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Images

I am trying to go through all our Jackdaw images to see where they were taken and which subspecies they belong to (to see if we have any others that'd be soemmerringii or cirtensis hopefully). The other issue is which one goes in taxobox. I do have a preference for one of the nominate subspecies if possible (though a super duper pic trumps this). Anyone else have strong opinions? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:02, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

NB: We have a few of subspecies soemmerringii, but they are all immature...some nice ones on flickr, see this one which I might ask the photographer nicely :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Placeholder as I have to run - these are some appropriately licenced flickr photos we can transfer over if needed. [1], [2], [3], [4], and [5]. Can't find any photos from North Africa :( Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Flock behaviour

• Is "gregarious" suitable to describe these birds that live in hierarchical social structures? Snowman (talk) 08:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Cramp uses the term to describe them, as well as "highly sociable" Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
• Are family groups of Jackdaws territorial at any time of the year? Snowman (talk) 08:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
  • They form larger flocks which roost communally. My interpretation of what I've read is that these flocks are territorial but not seen it spelled out specifically. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Folklore check

See here Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Western Jackdaw/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Keilana (talk · contribs) 20:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi Casliber, I'm working on the review and will post it as soon as I can. Thanks for your patience! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• • Now I think we've got everything...? But hard to tell when we don't tick off as we go.... :/ Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:20, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
    • I did a few minor grammar changes (most of which involved adding Oxford commas for consistency - I found that about 75% of the writing used it, so that's what I went with) and cleaned up stray punctuation marks. If you want to give it one last read-through, that's cool, but I'm ready to promote. Congrats! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 06:02, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Damn...time to prune my (huge) watchlist....I saw your copyedits and am happy. Happy for it to be promoted too :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:19, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
• I am also happy about the promotion. Thank you Keilana for putting in so much time in dealing with this nomination. Your effort is much appreciated.

• With regard to timing, I would prefer you not to promote it until April 29th. This is to do with timing for the WikiCup in which both Casliber and I are taking part. We both have sufficient points amassed before the deadline of 28th April to continue to the next round. The points from Western Jackdaw being promoted would be more useful in the following round when competition will become stiffer. (Casliber can respond to this if he disagrees with my suggestion.) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:11, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Errrr...I think it's a bit late now. I don't think there'll be a drama with either you or me getting thru this or next round either. Next bird collaboration is pelican. Also all of these have 2x multipliers due to being on >20 wikipedias. Also FAC has a Rate Limiting Step incorporated into it, so the sooner it goes in there, the sooner it comes out the other end... :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:34, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh, I'm so sorry! Regardless, I wish you both the best of luck at FAC! I'm sure it'll do great. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:38, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 1a

Just a note, I have a lot of very minor suggestions to make, none of which is super critical. Please don't be intimidated by the number of suggestions! And please feel free to inform me if they're stupid, because that happens sometimes. Also, I organized the copyedit suggestions by section and mostly in order within the section to make your life easier.

Lead

• The sentence beginning "It was originally described as Corvus monedula by Linnaeus..." is clunky.
• "'jack', denoting 'small'" is weird wording, maybe change to "'jack', meaning 'small'".
• "distinctive white irises to its eyes" - you can remove "to its eyes", and a wikilink to "iris" would be nice.
• "both rural and urban settings as well as in open woodland and coastal cliffs" is awkward.
• In "it is an omnivorous and opportunistic feeder, and eats", change "and eats" to "eating"
• "the young fledge" - change to "the young then fledge" for continuity

Taxonomy

• "in his 18th century work, Systema Naturae" - no comma needed
• "He gave it the name Corvus monedula..." - this sentence is clunky
• "A study of corvid phylogeny undertaken in 2007, compared" - no comma needed

Subspecies

• Tack on "of the Western Jackdaw" or "of Corvus monedula" to the end of "There are four recognised subspecies."
• Wikilink "intergrade"
• Change "with the transition zone" to "in a transition zone"
• Add a comma before "and northern and eastern Denmark" for clarity.
• Remove the comma between "north-eastern Europe, and north and central Asia"
• "It is distinguished by its paler nape and sides of the neck creating a contrasting black crown, and lighter grey part collar." - this sentence is awkward.
• "It was formerly found in Tunisia." - this is choppy.

Etymology

• In the first sentence, change "appears" to "appeared".
• Do you ever define the word "daw", or does it just refer to C. monedula?
  • The 'daw' bit is discussed in sentence 4. "Attested" means that it was recorded as meaning "jackdaw" in the 15th century but not before. The old English word was not recorded meaning jackdaw (hence unattested), but its related words in similar languages from that period do. Problem is, I can't think of a way of spelling out what attested/unattested means without adding a lot of words. Might have a think about it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
    • That's fine, maybe you could put a link to the Wiktionary definition or something. I just wasn't familiar with the etymological definition of "attested", hence the confusion. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 14:42, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Will do. Do you want us to mark off "done" after each item you've raised? Happy to do so if'n it makes it easier for your reviewing.Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:59, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Nah, maybe just put "not done" on the things you don't/can't do? Then we can figure out something/just let it be. Thanks so much for putting up with my extensive copyediting! :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 04:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
• Add quotation marks around "daws" and a comma after "formerly" in the sentence "Formerly Western Jackdaws were simply called daws."
• Change "the" to "their" in "Claims that the metallic..."
• "of the jack part of the common name" is awkward
• What does "attested" mean in an etymological context like this?
  • the more I think about it, the less I like it. I didn't add this bit and have reworded in plainer English (pondered on "speculated" for "postulated" - i.e. no-one has ever found the word used for Jackdaw in Old English, but we highly suspect it must have been because of all the other languages' Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:36, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yep, that's a lot better. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 22:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
• "is conjectured by the Oxford English Dictionary to be derived from an unattested Old English dawe" is awkward
• put "the" between "citing" and "cognates"

Sorry that this is just the first part; I'm transcribing proofreading marks from a hard copy so it takes a little while. I'll post more when I get up tomorrow morning. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 05:14, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• There should be an "and" or "or" between tahe and tachele, Dahle and Dohle, and Dache and Dacha.
• Put quotes around "chough" (in the phrase "Modern English chough")
• Maybe add "to refer to the Western Jackdaw" after "Chaucer sometimes used this word" for clarity purposes. Not sure about how necessary that is.
• Wikilink "pyrrhocorax".
• Is it totally necessary to say "particularly" in the phrase "formerly particularly common in Cornwall"? I find that it makes the sentence awkward.
• Add "the" before "Cornish Chough"
• Should it be "English dialectal names" or "names in English dialects" instead of "English dialect names"?
• Change "England" in "north England dialect" to "English". Also pluralize "dialect" and change "has" to "have".
• Put "word" in between "the midlands form of this" and "was" for clarity and flow.
• In "Other dialect or obsolete names", change "dialect" to "dialectal".
• Put parentheses around "for their nesting propensities" and "from their frequenting coasts" for clarity
• Change "from their frequenting coasts" to something like "from their frequent presence on the coast" - it's awkward as it stands.
  • I have made the alterations suggested in the second half of this section with the exception of "particularly" which I thought was needed to explain that the Chough was more common in Cornwall than elsewhere in the UK. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:15, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Looks good. And that's fine, your rationale makes sense. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 22:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Description

• Do you know the subspecies of the juvenile pictured?
• It might be nice to specify that the measurement given is length (though that might be common sense).
• Change "and the underparts slate-grey" to "and the underparts are slate-grey"
• Change "which is about 75% of the length of the head" to "which makes up about 75% of the length of the head"
• "25% of the lower mandible are covered by rictal bristles" - "are" should be "is"
• "whitening at around a year of age" - change "a" to "one" for clarity
• Maybe change "the sexes are alike" to "the sexes appear alike"?
• Change "although" to "though"
• Change "faint greenish sheen, with brown feather bases" to "faint greenish sheen and brown feather bases visible"
• Stick a semicolon after "visible"
• The phrase "the darkness or shading of the nape between light and dark grey" is awkward.
• The sentence "Populations in central Asia have slightly larger wings and spermologus has a slightly heavier bill" is clunky.
• Add "climates" after "opposite".
• Change "with juveniles" to "in juveniles".
• Change "also worn plumage in" to "during" (too wordy).
• "Its silhouette in flight with a pigeon or chough" is a little awkward.
• Is "separable" in "Flying Western Jackdaws are separable from other corvids" the best word choice? Would something like "distinguishable" or "differentiable" be more appropriate?
• Change "uniformly grey underwings and by their black beaks and legs" to "uniformly grey underwings and their black beaks and legs"
• Add a comma between "behaviour" and "and calls to the Daurian Jackdaw"
  • Done. I rearranged the "rictal bristles" sentence. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Voice

• Is the first call you mention the primary call? If so, you should specify that.
• Put "or" in between "kiaw" and "kyow".
• Put a comma after "before settling for the night"
  • Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:50, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Distribution and Habitat

• The first sentence is clunky. At the very least, you should add "and" between "Scandinavia" and "eastwards".
• Add "alone" after "Europe" at the end of the first paragraph.
• The whole 2nd paragraph is really choppy.
• Add "the" before "north Caspian".
• Change the period after "Pakistan" to a comma, change "They" to "and", add "where they were" after "Lebanon", and remove "there" before "in 1962".
• Add a comma after "In Syria"
• The phrase "presumably ship-assisted" is a little awkward.
• Should "pasture and cultivated land" be considered separately?
• Is it necessary to say both "villages and towns"?
• Add a comma after "buildings".
• Does it not spend the Asian winter in parks, or is that a phenomenon specific to Europe?
  • possibly I guess, but I haven't seen anything written on this, so can't generalise or make assumptions. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I removed the word European because the Asian winter takes place at the same of year as the European winter and it now reads "some Jackdaws spends the winter in urban parks". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:07, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
• Saying "persecution" is pretty loaded, and also has a lot of human-specific connotations. Is there a better word?
• Is it necessary to have the last sentence about the UK population? If yes, maybe it could be moved to the bit about the European population.
  • Done, with the exception of the second paragraph being choppy, and the last point, which I will leave Casliber to consider. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:13, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
  • That second para is very listy and hard to make smooth. I've tweaked it a bit and hope it reads a bit better. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:06, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
    • It does read better, thanks! And I like the "persecution" rewording. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 22:12, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Behaviour

• Remove "and" before "In Tobias Smollett's".
• Do you need to specify that Mr. Bramble is the one doing the character assassination?
• Remove the commas around "Midas Shadow".
• Saying "small to large flocks" is not helpful, maybe just say "flocks of variable size"?
• Remove "the" before "birds congregate at dusk for communal roosting".
• Put a comma before "Sweden" and remove "in".
• Change the "and" before "mated pairs" to "with" and change "settle" to "settling".
• Remove the comma after "Hooded Crows".
• Put a comma after "Vanellus vanellus" and change the "or" to "and".
• Remove "for food" before "in northwestern England" - talking about "foraging" implies "for food".
• Change "birds in larger numbers" to "larger groups".
• Add a comma after "Occasionally".
• Remove the comma after "In his book"
• Add a comma after "hierarchical group structure".
• Remove "that" before "pair-bonded birds" and change "share" to "sharing" for parallelism.
• Add "their" before "individual status".
• Add a comma after "Upon pairing".
• Change "a" after "Lorenz noted" to "one" for clarity.
• Change "of" before "social behaviour" to "in".
  • done these, but need to sleep now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

More coming soon, just don't want edit conflicts or anything. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 16:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Social displays

• Add "which include" after "threat displays".
  • aah, no they are three different things. supplanting and fighting are not threat displays. supplanting is where a bird feigns bum rushing another on a perch to displace it. I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Western_Jackdaw&diff=487800098&oldid=487672275 switched the order of the sentence so it segues on nicely. Clearer now? Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yep, much better. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Wikilink "antagonistic displays".
  • merged. see above Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• In the sentence "The bill-down posture is a commonly used.", change "a" to "another" and add "agonistic display" to the end.
• In the next sentence, change "here" to "In this display,"
• Change "a little" to "slightly".
• Remove "each other" from "face each other off" and change the subsequent "with" to "in".
• Can you explain what the defensive-threat posture is used for?
• Change "retreating" to "retreats" and "fighting" to "a fight" for less clunkiness.
• Change "while" after "feet intertwined" to "while".
  • ummm...huh? I think you forgot to change a word here. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
    • ...Oops. I meant to ask you to change the "and" after "feet intertwined" to "while". Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• The last paragraph is a little short and abrupt. Is there a better way to integrate it?
  • expanded it a little. Will see if I can dig anything else up as it doesn't append to the preceding para that well... Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
    • The allopreening bit helps some. It's not a huge deal if you can't; I just assume you're going for FAC and they'll probably notice that as well. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Feeding

• What is a rubbish tip? (Sorry, I'm an American...)
  • Landfill (would you normally call it a landfill?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, maybe put a wikilink there? Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:39, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
      • done Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Add "from" before "a few metres onto the cow pat".
• Remove the commas around "with increased binocular vision".
• Change "these being" (in the phrase "these being more developed in this species") to something like "because they are". It's awkward as is.
• I have rewritten this sentence. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Change "upon" before "small invertebrates" to "on".
• Add "that are" before "found above ground".
• The sentence "The Jackdaw will also eat small rodents and the eggs and chicks of birds as well as carrion such as roadkill." is really awkward.
• Change "seeds of weeds" to "weed seeds" or just "seeds".
• Add "that" before "they contained".
• Add "that" before "Jackdaws forage there".
• Remove "stealing food from each other" after "kleptoparasitism" - the wikilink is enough.
• Maybe add "on the other hand" before "the Saker Falcon" as a better transition?
• Tempting to, but the two references are unrelated, so I am cautious about adding a contrastive "OTOH" there. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Change the commas around "where the initiative for transfer lies with the donor" to emdashes.
• Change the "and" between "sex" and "kinship" to "or".
• Maybe put a "however" before "the active giving of food in birds" for transition purposes?
• Why is that bit about chimpanzees in there? Some more context would be nice.
• Change "although" before "it has been found to be detached from nutrition" to "though".
• Wikilink "mutualism".
• Add "also" before "been proposed that the sharing" and change "the" before "sharing" to "food" for added specificity.
• Done to here. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Can you add a little bit of explanation for "exclusion tasks"?
• This last paragraph in the section does not seem to be backed up by the abstract of the article referenced. I would happily remove the paragraph entirely. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
• Basically it was a lab test exploring the ability of a non-caching corvid (jackdaw) and comparing it to a caching one (raven) that had done well with this experiment....and it turns out the jackdaws are not as skilled as the ravens in finding food by exclusion. I am tempted to leave this out as it is a fairly circumscribed experiment. In essence, there is a test with food and two receptacles and the bird has to find the food. In hte first one there is a straight and bent tube, and the idea is that if the bird can't see the food in the straight tube it should calculate it's in the bent one... but the jackdaws still do alot of direct inspection. They also did the experiment with food under one of two cups - one transparent and one opaque. Given the results aren't conclusive, I'm thinking the sentence can be deleted. NB: The fact is mentioned in the text but is more of a background note really. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, that's interesting in and of itself actually, but I'd agree with deleting the sentence in this case. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 21:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Breeding

• Is "divorce" an ornithological term? If not, is there one that means the same thing? Currently it's a little too much personification for my taste.
• Could you merge the first two sentences? There's a bit of redundancy there.
• Add "being" before "ousted from nests".
• Add a comma after "find a nest site".
• Remove "from" before "predators during most of the year".
• Add "also" before "use church steeples for nesting".
• Change "by" to "when" before "a mated pair".
• Change "improving" to "improves"
• Remove "a" in "attain a great size"
• The last part of the paragraph (beginning with "the Jackdaw has been recorded outcompeting...") is choppy.
• Take out the comma after "Dryocopus martius".
• Add "also" after "breeding colonies may".
• Change the "and" before "magpie" to "or".
• Add "a" before "smooth, glossy pale blue"
• Change "averaging" after "subspecies monedula" to "average" and add "those of" before "subspecies soemmerringii" and "subspecies spermologus".
• Remove the comma after "in size" for all 3 measurements.
• Change "yielded" before "clutch sizes" to "observed".
• Remove "this means that" before "parental investment in the brood".
• Remove the comma before "in Spain and Israel".
• The sentence "The European pine marten (Martes martes) raids nests in Sweden, but is less successful in nests in colonies." is awkward.

• I've rewritten the last sentence and dealt with the other suggestions to here. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Parasites and diseases

• Wikilink "cloacae".
• Change "and" after "cloacae" to "so"
• The phrase "led the Department of Health to recommend that milk from bottles which had been pecked open should be thrown away and steps should be taken to prevent birds attacking bottles in the future" is awkward.
• Change "which was causing mortalities" to "that caused mortalities".
• Change "a sick bird which subsequently died" to "one bird".
• Wikilink "crow polyomavirus"?
• Change "this" before "with salmonella" to "the virus".
• Add "also" after "segmented filamentous bacteria have".
• These suggestions also attended to except the last one. I thought adding "also" to the sentence was not an improvement. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Fair enough. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 21:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Cultural depictions and folklore

• The first sentence is awkward.
• Why did you put (Amores 2,6,34) in the article content? Should that be in a footnote/citation instead?
  • the citation is a secondary source, found it hard to slot in there, so prosified it a little. Might try as a quote (?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Hrm, that's weird. If a quote doesn't work, maybe you could try putting it in a different footnote? Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 04:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
• The sentence beginning "In Aesop's Fables" is awkward.
• The part of the paragraph beginning with "Pliny notes how" is choppy.
• Add "after" before "having been banished".
• The paragraph beginning "The Jackdaw's nesting in church steeples" is choppy.
• Add "because the" before "Devil" and change the later "because of" to "due to".
• Change "features on" to "is featured on" and "the Ukrainian town of Halych's" to "Halych, Ukraine's"
• Add "being" before "derived from the East Slavic word".
• Add "work' before "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting".
• Having more information about the pangram at the end of the section would be nice.
  • Ok, this section was quite hard to tie together originally, but have rejigged a bit to align similar themes and make less choppy. "Halych, Ukraine" sounds funny to me and a bit too American, so I think as written sounds more prosey and natural. Others may differ and if bullied presented with alot of folks wanting it the other way I'll change it :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, I'm an American, so that explains that! :) You're obviously following British conventions in this article, so if that's consistent, then keep it the way it is. No worries. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Pest control

• Are there more details available about Jackdaws being seen as pests? This section is a bit thin.

That's all I have for copyediting; I'll post the stuff relating to the other criteria in a bit. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 19:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I think that this section is too short as well. To some extent I think that the brief details given could mislead people into thinking it is fine to shoot Jackdaws. I think that it is illegal to kill or take jackdaws from he wild in the UK. Perhaps, there is a balance and jackdaws have a place in the ecosystem. Do jackdaws do anything useful for humans in tidying up carrion. Snowman (talk) 10:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

• • I agree. Snowman if you come across anything on protection status (or previous culling), then it'd be great to add. I'll have a look once I've gone through the copyediting. I had meant to add to this section if possible. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
    • That would be lovely, sorry for all the copyediting notes! <grin> Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 21:39, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Found some more info from the UK (now if we could only find some from Europe...) Note the book URL links to one segment in the book, there is another too (look at page numbers) Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:06, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
• I have added an extra paragraph about the jackdaw as a pest and its control in the UK. Personally, I think jackdaws are delightful. We have 3 pairs currently nesting in our farmyard. The newly hatched chicks are at the quiet voice stage at the moment but will soon be raucous in their demand for food. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • added some material from EU especially Germany. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:29, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
    • It looks great, and I went and fixed a couple minor grammatical things. I apologize in advance if I'm a bit slow in responding for the next few days or so; I'm currently occupied closing the Muhammad RfC and thus have a lot of reading to do. Thanks for putting in the extra effort - I'm looking forward to both passing this for GA and supporting it at FAC. :-) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 04:52, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Thanks for the grammar fixes. And thanks for being thorough as it helps later.... :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
        • You're welcome for both! :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 17:18, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Copyediting

• I have been working with Casliber on preparing this article for its GA nomination. I have dealt with the above suggestions except for the last three under Etymology which are not really my "forte". My Concise Oxford Dictionary defines "Attest" as certify the validity of, but who is or isn't doing the certifying in this case is unclear. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks! I'm going to post more in just a bit - need to transcribe my messy notes. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 14:45, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 1b

Everything with the MoS looks fine to me. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 2

• Is there a citation for "about 75% of the length of the head"?
  • It is actually the cite at teh end of the sentence after. I doubled up but the other thing I often do is leave a commented out note stataing how many of the preceding sentences the cite covers (which means fewer footnotes all over the page) Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
• Does the Cramp citation at the end of the paragraph about geographic variation cover the information in the whole paragraph?
  • yes Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
• Maybe move the cite about Warsaw parks to the end of the sentence where you talk about the population in Warsaw.
  • I added two commented out bits after each ref (visible when you click "edit") - do you think that is easier on the eyes than inlines after each sentence? If not then I can add the refs to them as well.
    • I'm not terribly picky, I personally put inlines after every sentence but as long as you're consistent and everything is sourced, I don't care. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 17:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
• Do you have a cite for "Like Magpies, they are known to pick up shiny objects such as jewellery to hoard in nests."
  • this one should be easy to find, but I am tired and it's late here. I'll hunt around tomorrow if someone doesn't do it overnight. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I have added two references for this habit, one for the magpie and one for the jackdaw. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yay, thanks! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 17:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
• Does the Cramp citation cover all the information about agonistic displays?
  • yes Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, I just wanted to make sure everything was covered. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 12:48, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

• • Been meaning to get to others. RL has dealt me a messy hand the last few days and I've been spectacularly busy. Will have some time tonight. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
    • No worries, I'm working on the Muhammad RfC so I'll be a mite busy for the next little while. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 17:33, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Otherwise I don't see problems with the citations. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Criteria 3-5

No problems here.

Criterion 6

I think I addressed these above. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

German article

I noticed that you are currently reworking this article. I recently rewrote the corresponding German article for the writing contest over there. If you need a short review, literature or any other advice or help, just contact me on my talk page.--Toter Alter Mann (talk) 15:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Danke Schon! Aber mein Deutsch ist schrecklisch.....(stops fumbling around in German).....nice work! I like some of the images and have used them :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Comparative size query

Checking Goodwin I cannot find the cited assertion that the bird is the second smallest species of corvid. I would doubt it anyway – many jays must be smaller. Could it be that the claim is supposed to be the second smallest species of Corvus? Maias (talk) 05:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes you are right. That's what I meant when I wrote it.Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:15, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Redundant or obscure?

The following passage is either redundant or obscure: small invertebrates ... including larvae and pupae of Curculionidae,[64] Coleoptera (particularly cockchafers of the genus Melolontha),[66] Diptera, and Lepidoptera species. The best interpretation I can make is that this jackdaw eats larvae and pupae of Curculionidae and "fullgrown" beetles of other Coleoptera species. It could also mean that it eats only larvae and pupae of all these insect species. In this case Curculionidae is redundant. Could someone please clarify in the article? --Ettrig (talk) 07:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

various insects also make up part of their animal diet. Given that we have allready mentioned the vast majority of insect species, I find this statement peculiar. Does it refer to the same species or other species (that have not been previously listed)? If the latter is the case it would be cleare and much more readable to say that it eats insects (period, no specification of subgroups). But maybe the intention is to say that the mentioned groups are eaten more often. In this case this should be expressed explicitly. --Ettrig (talk) 07:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Trimmed it and rejigged. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think it reads beautifully now. Thanks! (I tried to translate to Swedish, but got confused.) --Ettrig (talk) 10:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

It's great hearing it being exported into other languages (and even better when other languages have some good stuff on them we didn't - the German article is also featured and the main editor was very helpful.) Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Migration

Annual migration is mentioned with reference to Lorenz, but nowhere else in the article. Presumably, Lorenz made an accurate observation that jackdaws migrated away from his locality in the winter. What is the pale blue area on the range map? Snowman (talk) 19:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

User cntrl-F on the word "wintering" to find the mentions. The blue areas are winter visitor only. Mentioned under subspecies for soemerringii Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:25, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The "| range_map_caption" entry is confusing to me. I have added a bit about the blue zone to the map caption, but I think the map caption could be improved further by explaining what the green area is better. Would it be better to use the word migrate more in the article? Snowman (talk) 09:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I thought the word "wintering" was nice and succinct, but if you can reword it otherwise you are most welcome to have a go. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Re-think: there is a "migratory", which I missed before. Snowman (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Mention of subspecies

The conventional way of writing the subspecies names would be C. m. soemmerringii, not "subspecies soemmerringii". Any reason why the latter is used here? It is also inconsistent throughout captions, some places the full trinomial is used, sometimes the shorted version, and sometimes the "subspecies X" version. FunkMonk (talk) 10:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Making it prose-friendly I guess. Feel free to standardise it any way you want. I am in the middle of a couple of things and will get to it later otherwise. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll go with the "C. m. soemmerringii" style, if it's alright? FunkMonk (talk) 10:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Fine by me :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

What is this collective behaviour?

I have a tree outside my bedroom which used to be a roost for Jackdaws. It has not been used as a roost for several years. There are several Jackdaw roosts within a couple of miles of where I live. At dawn, many jackdaws begin to arrive and collect in the tree outside my bedroom before flying off several minutes later. The birds arrive from several directions (although primarily from a well-established roost), but I cannot tell whether they are from the same roost or not. I would like to research this behaviour and perhaps add it to this page, but I don't even know what this behaviour is called. Can anyone help?__DrChrissy (talk) 18:12, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Jackdaws and crows?

Here's the thing. You said a "jackdaw is a crow." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying "crow family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens. So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people "call the black ones crows?" Let's get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that's not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you'd call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don't. It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

Huh? The article says it's in the crow family, not a corw. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:31, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, if it's a regional thing or colloquialism, that's fine, I'm mainly annoyed that this page is trying to be "specific" and insisting on a less specific term! :D This is generally why Latin is a good way to deal with stuff, it's a common ground, rather than relying on commonalities to a specific country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.154.140 (talk) 17:14, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

One is often walking the tightrope between accessibility and accuaracy. My impression was that the family Corvidae was often colloquially called the crow family. Actually it is worth having a discussion on. I will alert the folks at the Birds Wikiproject. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:49, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I found an audio file on Commons

Hello! Can you put this audio file into this article? I am not native speaker of English and I don't want to fail the text or anything else. Here is the file: Corvus monedula calls.ogg

--Porbóllett (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

That's great! I don't think I have either....will look around after I have done some chores.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:10, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

@Porbóllett: I got it sorted now - thanks for finding that! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:19, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

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Corvus or Coloeus

The agreement on WikiProject Birds (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds/References) is that editors should follow the IOC classification unless there is consensus not to.

In 2012 the IOC (Gill and Donsker) moved the western jackdaw from the genus Corvus to the genus Coloeus. They included the note "Assign Western Jackdaw and Daurian Jackdaw from Corvus to Coloeus (Rasmussen & Anderton 2005)". (This is "Birds of South Asia".) The latest IOC list (IOC 7.3) is here.

The other major world lists (H&M4, Clements, HBW alive) have not made this change (see the large IOC comparison Excel file here and Avibase).

Should we ignore the IOC in this instance and retain the western jackdaw (and the Daurian jackdaw) in Corvus? Aa77zz (talk) 10:57, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

• Can't wait for this to become a long RfC. Anyways, I think that since nobody else has switched it yet, we should wait until somebody does. Thus, we should keep this bird in the genus Corvus. RileyBugz^会話_投稿記録 19:15, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
• I say move em. We can always move them back. Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:15, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
• Not really fussed either way as I haven't followed the literature as I have with, say, Cracticus/Gymnorhina squabble with Australian magpie....happy to go with the flow here. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
• The wikiproject has decided to standardize with the IOC on both English names and taxonomy a little while back.....we should keep with IOC, My vote is to change 'em...Pvmoutside (talk) 19:15, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

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New Images

I took some photos of Western Jackdaws today. I don't feel confident enough to edit the article but I would like if they were included. I think the pictures of them collecting nesting material and grooming might be interesting. You can see them here: idle jackdaw 1 idle jackdaw 2Collecting materialgrooming --Bomiman (talk) 09:52, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@Bomiman: the last two could be good to squeeze in somewhere. Regarding the first two, always good to try and get the whole bird in the photo. The article does have alot of photos in it though, but surely we can do a substitution somewhere....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Name origin confusion

If I'm reading the intro correctly, the word jackdaw comes from jack, which means "small", and daw, which means... "jackdaw"? How can its name be derived from its own name? Well, I guess they used to call it 'daw', and then started adding 'jack' to it, maybe? An explanation of where "daw" originally comes from (or a clarification that the origins of the "daw" part are unknown) would be much appreciated. 147.226.220.112 (talk) 07:18, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Weightless bird? ;)

I couldn't really spot the adult weight of these birds. Henk Poley (talk) 06:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Henk Poley Well spotted. Now added. - Aa77zz (talk) 07:47, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Pet

They were historically kept as pets, although this was probably not a good idea. Maybe some information on this topic should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.67.227.181 (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)