Talk:North Asia

NPOV

This article badly needs some NPOV and a more moderate tone (go easy on the bold text!). Could the original author(s) clarify/provide specific examples? For instance, what "western media" are you talking about? Also, do avoid labelling and generalising: for instance "Americans/Westerners make such mistakes..." Maycontainpeanuts 04:25, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Remove Russian-centric pov on this article. It should only provide simple overview on geographic, history, and related matters. Durianlover1 (talk) 03:58, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

at present it just says that North Asia is essentially identical with Siberia. We don't need an article for that, it should just be merged into Siberia. 130.60.142.65 06:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I concur; this article need not exist, as the term is little-used (if at all). Merge with Siberia. Adso de Fimnu 05:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Search on "north asia" shows the term has wildly different definitions, many of which do not contain Siberia at all.

United Nations geoscheme does not include a North Asia.

The most accurate thing to say about "North Asia" would be that it does not have a generally accepted definition, and is only used when it is arbitrarily defined for convenience, from various incompatible viewpoints. --JWB (talk) 14:03, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Area

Does anyone know the area for North Asia? The area listed for Siberia on its own page seems to be for a smaller definition of Siberia than the entire North Asia. GranChi (talk) 20:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Map

Can anyone make a light green fringe for parts of North Asia beyond the dark green boundaries, such as Northern Kazakhstan and Mongolia, and parts of the Urals (a third shade if need be) for historical/alt definitions to the one present --stretching further West. Vyaiskaya (talk) 03:51, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Mongolia

I think, like, a couple of other countries should be included as North Asia, or at least just Mongolia Unknown... (talk) 00:40, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Most sources and atlases include Mongolia in East Asia, very few sources include the country in Central Asia. I haven't seen a single source or atlas which includes Mongolia in North Asia. Other than Siberia, Northern Kazakhstan (which includes North Kazakhstan, Akmola, Kostanay, and Pavlodar regions) is the only area which could be considered a part of North Asia. James Ker-Lindsay (talk) 15:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:54, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of "Template:Largest cities of North Asia"

Template:Largest cities of North Asia has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 11:23, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Asian Russia is not North Asia or Siberia

Asian Russia shouldn't be redirected to North Asia (Siberia). Even though Siberia forms the bulk of Asian Russia, it does not equal to Asian Russia.

Asian Russia consists of three parts:

1. Russian Siberia (located east of the Ural Mountains watershed and the Ural River) in North Asia.

2. Sochi and some small pockets of land along the north-eastern Georgia–Russia border (located south of the Greater Caucasus Mountains watershed) in Western Asia.

3. Southern Orenburg Oblast (located south of the Ural River) in Central Asia. 110.145.30.41 (talk) 11:15, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Either North Asia is Siberia, or it is not

We need to choose one of the following options to preserve the sanity of our readers:

• either North Asia is Siberia, as the very first sentence says here: "North Asia or Northern Asia, also referred to as Siberia". In this case, this article is an undesirable WP:CFORK and should be replaced by a redirect;
• or there is a difference between Siberia and North Asia. In this case, the lead should clearly identify this difference.

As-is, the article does not leave a credible encyclopedic impression. Викидим (talk) 06:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Pinging the editors that changed this article in the past into a redirect and back and participated in the merge discussion (see Talk:Siberia#Merge proposal (2)): @ZimZalaBim, FXXX, Rahio1234, Matuko, Brateevsky, IPs are people too, Super Dromaeosaurus, Treetoes023, AuroraANovaUma, JM2023, Vesperius, Chipmunkdavis, W9793, James Ker-Lindsay, TheTwiceler, AirshipJungleman29, DayakSibiriak, Abo Yemen, Wheatley2, and Vanyka-slovanyka:

I do not have position on existence or non-existence of the differences myself. This is not a proposal to merge, mostly the opposite: an attempt to list the differences.. Therefore, please do not simply state "these are two different things". The discussion will be greatly advanced by articulating the differences, so we can put them into the lead (at this stage, there is no need for sources, any hint will be great). I will transfer opinions from the merge discussions here. Please give me 15 minutes or so. Викидим (talk) 07:02, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I believe both articles should be retained. Generally speaking, North Asia and Siberia are considered separate, and the proposed merges were very controversial, which can be easily proven by the fact that they were both mostly oppose votes.

That's called reckless proposing AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 14:27, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

As I have said just a few lines above, "[t]his is not a proposal to merge". I am looking for input on differences between North Asia and Siberia so we can detail them in the articles (if we cannot find (m)any, then the course of discussion might change). By now, after some reading, I think that I know the difference in Russian (Siberia is informal, historical, and varying in years, North Asia is just imprecise), but this is an English Wikipedia, so the meaning of the same words can be quite different, especially on a subject even remotely touching the geopolitics (like this one). If "North Asia and Siberia are considered separate", then common sense suggests that we should be able to state who is considering them separate, and how - in the text of both articles. Викидим (talk) 18:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I know it's not. Was talking about the actual merge proposals. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 18:32, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Here is the summary as promised. All the credit goes to other editors. All typos, if any, are entirely my responsibility. Feel free to edit your own position (or add one) as you see fit. --Викидим (talk) 07:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Accumulated differences from the merge discussion

Editor	Opinion
Vesperius	The Ural region and Russian Far East are sometimes considered separate from Siberia, and it would cause issues in listings of the regions of Asia where the other regions are called West Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, Southeast Asia and East As
Wheatley2	Siberia includes parts of the Urals, North Asia does not. They are different. And "North Asia" generally is thought of than less then "Siberia" but also a region of Asia, as Siberia is a concept that is almost exclusively Russian!
James Ker-Lindsay	in political geography, North Asia = Siberia, but in physical geography, Siberia actually includes Northern Kazakhstan too (see West Siberian Plain). In cultural geography, North Asia also includes Mongolia and Inner Mongolia
JM2023	look at the map and the pages. right now, they are defined as being exactly the same and even reference this fact in their respective articles in their leads
AirshipJungleman29	North Asia and Siberia are interchangeable. Mongolia is generally regarded as either East or Central Asian, and the existence of an area of Kazakhstan which is considered part of Siberia is already mentioned at that article
Anonymous IPv6	I was taught that Mongolia is a part of North Asia. https://library.scotch.wa.edu.au/Year6GeographyADiverseandConnectedWorld/northernasia ... Mongolia can be either a part of North Asia, East Asia or Central Asia ... we could do the same here, make North Asia an article about history, culture and geopolitics, make Siberia an article about physical geography and geology
Anonymous IPv4	Siberia is a region of Russia, North Asia is a region of Asia
Anonymous IPv4	define North Asia as a geopolitical region and Siberia as a phyiographical region
Anonymous IPv6	Siberia is just a physiographical term similar like the Indian Subcontinent

• ...I don't see anything in the first sentence which might constitute a CFORK or result in readers growing insane. Expand please on what this article is a CFORK of and where it should be redirected to. If your issue is with the use of alternative names, note MOS:BOLDALTNAMES. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

• Please note the underlined This is not a proposal to merge above. As I had already stated, I do not have a position, and for the sake of discussion I am willing to accept that Siberia and North Asia are different things, so I see no point in arguing the opposite, as you seem to suggest me to do. However, the very first phrase in this article clearly indicates that North Asia is also called Siberia (you apparently have taken the same position in the merge discussion, stating "there is nothing separating the two articles"). A man on the Clapham omnibus (in this case, it is me: I have travelled to Siberia/North Asia multiple times, but I am not an expert in geography) would reasonably deduce that there must be difference between the two articles and would try to read them (as I did) to figure out these differences. What would they find? For North Asia, "consists of three federal districts of Russia: Ural, Siberian, and the Far Eastern". For Siberia, "The Russian government divides the region into three federal districts ... the central one is ... "Siberian"; the other two are the Ural and Far Eastern federal districts". This IMHO - in very explicit language - describes the same territory. The hatnote here is even more confusing, "see also Siberia [which is something very similar] and European Russia [which is something very different]". The hatnotes in Siberia fail to mention North Asia at all, the lead mentions it - but does not link to this article. Now, hopefully, I have better explained the state of the articles as seen by the uninitiated and my desire to change it. Викидим (talk) 16:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

  Worth noting that Vesperius' mention of the smaller definition of Siberia (sans Ural and Far East) is covered in the article Siberian Federal District, which is clearly distinct from the two pages at hand. CMD (talk) 10:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Russian geography

This section will contain sources that I have found so far that describe the differences between Siberia and North Asia that reflect the opinion of Russian researchers. I am planning to write a short section on the distinction titled something like "North Asia and Siberia in Russian geography" (proposals are welcome). Feel free also to add any additional sources below. If other editors find a good source, they are welcome to add it also (if it is not in Russian, we might want to change the title of this thread). The quotes below are not translated (Google does a decent job), summary in English is provided. --Викидим (talk) 23:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

• Малолетко, Алексей Михайлович. "Северная Азия: природа и раннее заселение." (2008). Издательство Томского университета, p. 6: North Asia has been historically and artificially dived into Siberia and Far East along the administrative boundaries. "Исторически сложилось так, что единая по природным условиям территория севера Азии была искусственно разделена учёными на Сибирь и Дальний Восток. Искусственность данного деления видна из того, что это деление проводится по административным границам, не подчинённым каким-то природным реалиям."
• «Славянский мир» Сибири: новые подходы в изучении процессов освоения Северной Азии: Кол. монография / Под ред. О.Н. Бахтиной, В.Н. Сырова, Е.Е. Дутчак. – Томск: Издво Том. ун-та, 2009. – 218 с. ISBN 978-5-7511-1902-7, p. 51: In Russian empire term Siberia was used to designate all lands between the Urals and Pacific Ocean. In Soviet Union Siberia was separated from Far East, with the boundary being the rivers flowinг into the Arctic Ocean. "До 1917 г. под «Сибирью» понимался регион от Урала до Тихого океана; после 1917 г. это название распространяется только на территорию от Уральских гор до рек, текущих в Северный Ледовитый и Тихий океаны, а «Дальний Восток России» выделяется как самостоятельная область. Поскольку административное деление не учитывает единства этнодемографических процессов, в настоящем разделе привлечен «дальневосточный материал» и используется следующая терминология: до 1920-х гг. зауральские территории в целом именуются Сибирью, для представления истории славянских народов в регионе в последующий период использован более корректный современный термин «Северная Азия». "