Talk:Soul Music (novel)

Untitled

I removed the following text from the article, as it is more an essay about a certain aspect of the Discworld novels than a description of the novel:

"It is a tribute to the genius and humanism of the authour that he is able to introduce technologies into Discworld in a different order from which they appeared in the "real world", yet in a totally convincing manner, thus illustrating the contigency of social and technological development.

Many of these technologies ressemble the devices familiar to the audience of The Flintstones television cartoon series in that they substitute cranky and sometimes spiteful animate beings (animals and birds for The Flintstones and small demons in the Discworld novels) for mechanisms. This is handled so adeptly by Pratchett that one forgets how annoying it could have been.

Of course, there is a narrative logic to the substitution of demons in the machine for mechanisms, since in Discworld, Magic plays the role (but not entirely) of Science and Technology in our Globe World.

Still, Pratchett deserves to be recognized among the great writers of alternative world fiction for his ability to convincing incorporate modern technology into a world which, like our own, is at many different "historical" levels of cultural development.

At the present time (2003), the most advanced society on Discworld (apart from the Agatean Empire which in some ways ressembles China, Japan and North America), is the City State of Ankh-Morpork. It some ways it is medieval, in others it ressembles 16th and 17th Century Britain, and it even has shadings of Victorian London.

Some of the technological developments in the later novels are based on Old Technologies, such as Semaphore, but parody New Technology, such as Fax Machines.

Having established the contigency of historical development, Pratchett can get away with anything, from sending his characters to the Moon (which has a diameter of something like 45 miles, in keeping with the Medieval scale of the Discworld)to having his Ephebian Philosophers reinvent, if not the wheel, then at least something old-world, such as the Archimedean Screw (which, this being Discworld, is probably a mixed drink)."

Information could be incorporated in the article on Discworld. Sandman 12:32, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Considering the date of the book, what grounds are there for thinking Trollz parodies to Gorillaz?80.168.2.130 15:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, removed it. But you could probably just have fixed it yourself since Trollz being a parody of Gorillaz is a temporal impossibility. Jeltz talk 22:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

the other way around, however ... 8-) chrisboote 14:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Pun on Rolling Stones?

It looks to me more like it's just a pun on "rock band". The Rolling Stones gag comes later, when the leopardskin-trousers band that can't settle on a name consider that there has to be a right name for a band playing their form of Music with Rocks in, use the phrase "a rolling stone gathers no moss", and utterly fail to make a connection... Daibhid C 11:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

A Missed Reference?

ref: "Buddy starting to fade away while playing onstage is reminiscent of Marty in Back to the Future."

Also oblique reference to one of Buddy Holly's songs "Not Fade Away," which was later covered by the Rolling Stones.

Speaking of references...

"a rolling stone gathers no moss, my father says," perhaps papa was a rollin' stone? Jon Quixote 19:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Band Names

Removed suggestion that Trollz are based on The Gorillaz as this seems impossable as the Gorrillaz started in 2000 and the book was published in 1994

The band that cannot decide on a name (at various points they opt for Insanity, Suck, The Blots, The Whom, The Surreptitious Fabric, and Lead Balloon, among others) is clearly a series of references. Some of these are covered on the main page - and incidentally Madness and Lead Balloon ought to be consolidated into this section. The Whom is clearly an extension of the Who, and The Surreptitious Fabric would appear to be Terry's play on the Velvet Underground. Suck and The Blots elude me at the moment; does anyone have a suggestion for their derivation?

I strongly suspect that The Blots refers to The Ink Spots - a pop band that, according to their Wiki page, influenced the R&B and rock genres. According to my father, in 40s' or 50s' London it was a common schoolchild's joke to hold a piece of blotting paper to one ear and explain "I'm listening to Ink Spots." Pterry, born in 1948, might have come across a version of that joke. Pastychomper (talk) 09:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Plot Summary & Questions

I found parts of the plot a bit hard to follow near the end. Not mind you that one reads Pratchett for clear plot, but still.... I was hoping to find a bit clearer plot summary here. Hope someone can expand it. Asbruckman 04:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Here are a couple more specific questions:

• What exactly does Death change at the end of the book?
• What is the significance of the number 1 on Buddy's guitar?

My understanding is that he is demonstrating how long the guitar has been in the shop, with the implication that the guitar has been around since the beginning of time Paganize (talk) 09:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

• How did The Librarian know that Death needed help?Asbruckman 03:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Only one thing seriously bothers me, the "Music with rocks in" gag. this just makes no sense to me, is this a British specific gag? I've read 17 of the books over the last 2 months and this is the only thing so far that has struck a serious discord in my mind.Paganize (talk) 09:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I heartily agree

The entire issue of The Music as a live thing with will of its own is missing from the plot summery. Since it is THE major plot drive this is a serious problem. Unfortunately I can not help as I did not understand the (badly written) end either. 85.250.49.77 00:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced?

• I've removed the Unreferenced tag from the article. As far as I can see, all the references are covered in Annotations for Soul Music and Quotes from Soul Music. If you disagree, then please put the tag back on, but please say which parts of the article that could better from more references - otherwise the tag is pretty useless. Eldestone 10:24, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

And I've restored it again. The tag is designed for pages where nothing in the article is referenced, as it is here - "External links" are not references, unfortunately. The header could be changed to "References" instead, perhaps. My preference however is for using in-line citations. This ensures that the information is verifiable. Having a blanket "This site is (or these sites are) a reference" declaration is less satisfying, for me, because as anyone can edit Wikipedia they could sneak unreferenced information into anything covered by such a blanket. For example, I spotted a couple of things which aren't referenced in the Annotated Pratchett.

I will try and add some {{fact}} tags later. Please see WP:CITE for more about why sources should be cited. As for how, my own preference is to use Wikipedia:Citation templates. For an example of a novel article that uses in-line citations, have a look at The Well of Loneliness or The Lord of the Rings. -- H. Carver 12:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Making Terry Pratchett a Featured Article

This is a call to arms to make the Terry Pratchett article a Featured Article. It will greatly help the cause if all the side articles that link from it are of a reasonable standard. Terry Pratchett has around 40 side articles (ie the ones relating to his work) - I don't think they are all expected to be GA (Good Article) standard for TP to become featured, but certain basic elements will be looked at for sure.

A full list of the sub articles is here on the TP talk page: I'm posting this comment on the talk pages of each article on the list. Editors reading may also like to help with the TP article too?

The main issue, especially with smaller articles, is often a finding reasonable amount of citations, and prose can sometimes be a little POV too. Coverage of the topic is probably less important, but of course it needs to be reasonably good. --Matt Lewis (talk) 15:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the Reference List

Considering this article is about the novel, with only a small section devoted to the TV adaptation, should references and quotations from the adaptation really be included with the rest? They could at least be identified in some way. EdibleKarma (talk) 00:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

"a name like Cliff"

I thought this was a reference to Cliff Burton (Of Metallica) who died prematurely in a bus accident. I've edited the section to reflect this, if anyone has a problem with it let me know. Joegrindrod (talk) 14:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joegrindrod (talk • contribs) 14:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

The towel's initials

When Susan explores Death's domain, she finds a towel with the "initials" of "Y M R-C-I-G-B-S A, A-M" on it. What is the meaning of this? Is it some hard-to-get joke, or a sort of Easter-Egg message from Terry Pratchett? Or does Y stand for Ysabell, M for Mort, A-M for Alberto Malik? Who then were or are RCIGBS (all names for Death?) and A? And why the comma? --2003:C9:3F24:6500:FC17:F48E:20D2:DE2E (talk) 18:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Just found the answer myself with a bit of web-search trickery, so the initials actually stand for "*Young Men's Reformed-Cultists-of-the-Ichor-God-Bel-Shamharoth Association, Ankh-Morpork". Maybe this should be added to the book description here? --2003:C9:3F24:6500:FC17:F48E:20D2:DE2E (talk) 18:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Yep, looks like a slightly unusual example of a Pratchett in-joke that he didn't explain in the book. I remember that association being mentioned in another book (likely to be Hogfather, but I don't have it to check). In that case, I think it was shortened to "YMPA" (presumably to guide the reader to think of the YMCA) but one of the characters quoted the full name of the organisation. As a passing joke rather than a plot point it doesn't need to be mentioned in the article, but I see no harm in adding it if you want - you probably won't be the last person to come here looking for an explanation. Pastychomper (talk) 12:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

thank you! 88.109.107.37 (talk) 19:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

The answer is in the book. Susan asks Alfred about 2 pages later, and he tells her. 88.109.107.37 (talk) 19:44, 22 November 2022 (UTC)