Talk:Papyrus

	Writing portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ancient Egypt High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Egyptological subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient EgyptWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient EgyptTemplate:WikiProject Ancient EgyptAncient Egypt articles

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

Papyrus: History and Manufacture

I wanted to add a few things to the history section. For example, in Giza papyrus from Merer was found talking about Khufu's reign. Also, papyrus was still traded in Sicily and was exported from Egypt until the end of the eleventh century. I also wanted to add why Egypt created papyrus, because they had an abundance of the plant. In the manufacture and use section, I wanted to add specifics such as the width of the paper, how many papers averagely went into a scroll, and what came with a specific papyrus kit. Also, Pliny the Elder talked about gluing the strips together with muddy water. I wanted to add that in, even though it wasn't a common practice. -Zamughal —Preceding undated comment added 05:13, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Papyrus: The Font?

This article fails to mention the modern "Papyrus" font. If HTML is allowed here, let me show you Papyrus: This is the font Papyrus. Papyrus is a great font. AaBbCcDdEeFfGgHhIiJjKkLlMmNnOoPpQqRrSsTtUuVvWwXxYyZz - Wabty

This is irrelevant in an article about papyruses. If the font were a topic of sufficient notability, a specific article could be written about it. palpalpalpal (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Older Comments

Isn't papyrus made of the pith of the plant?

Em Dash

I see you (Hajor) have accepted that the correct form here is the m-dash and not the dash. My own personal preference is to include spaces on each side of the m-dash as you have done. I point out, that while we both agree it looks much better, it is generally correct. I've just had to learn to live with an m-dash crowded into the text, as silly as that appears. But I'll not change your edit - Marshman 18:50, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for that. But, it's not that I accepted that the em dash is correct and the en dash wrong (I've read too many Penguins for that) – it was the offering of a compromise solution that generally enjoys acceptance among both the tight-em and the loose-en churches. It's a silly issue, a minor one, but quite contentious. Have you read Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dashes)? Basically, it's a call for tolerance and mutual acceptance on this point, so we can get on with writing articles. Oh – and that was a good copyedit you did, too! Do you think it'd be useful to pipe-link "sedge" to Cyperaceae? –Hajor 19:53, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I guess I'm now in the "tight-em" camp, despite a life-long preference for loose-en, then later loose-em. Anyway, I'm not do-or-die about it. I was editing this page, saw the "incorrect" dash %) and changed it. Then I saw the history where Wetman had come through. And sure, I'll make that link now. Seems worthwhile. Also, there are some huge (to 15 ft) wild papyrus in the marsh where I work. I have some pictures, but all have a friend in them whose permission I do not yet have to post. I'll ask her or get some new shots for the article. - Marshman 16:54, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Photo

The photo on the front of the page has a blank white page blocking the papyrus, and that seems a little disturbing. Should the picture be removed? Sycthos ^Talk 22:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can replace it with any photo from the gallery [1]. Don't just remove it.-- Ypacaraí 02:48, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This site is a good 8/10, only thing is the white square in the picture of papyrus its very annoying so can you move it please?

Picture changed -- IanUK

I took that pic. The white is an overexposed information board. Luckily I had a closeup of the board so I've pasted it over the top of the board and reuploaded the pic. It's now back on the article. (You might need to do a Ctrl-F5 to see the new version) - Adrian Pingstone 12:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. There are now two pics up. Should the one I put there be removed now that the old one is corrected? -- IanUK 21:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, the one at the top of the article is a close up on the leaves but my pic is an overall view. So we need both of them, please - Adrian Pingstone 17:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why did papyrus become extinct in Egypt?

Does the writer know why papyrus became extinct in Egypt? It is mentioned only in passing, but it seems a most extraordinary fact. NaySay 03:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It did not become extinct, it just now very infrequent, based upon anthropenic changes to its growing environment and from over use... Stevenmitchell (talk) 14:01, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A little aside... Where we use velum for degree certificates, Egypt uses papyrus! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Merlin-UK (talk • contribs) 13:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of papyrus plant

I changed the subtitle of the first picture (upper right) which had the same text in the subtitle as the second picture ("Papyrus plant Cyperus papyrus at Kew Gardens, London"), to the text which appears under the original picture in the picture gallery: "Papyrus plant growing in a garden, Australia". In any case, it certainly does not show Cyperus papyrus, so the old subtitle was wrong anyway.

Papyrus is also a small city off the Egyptian Coast?

Re: the change added by user 209.165.179.214 that added "Papyrus is also a small city off the Egyptian Coast?" - I have reverted your change for because I cannot find a reference to sucha city in a cursory search of Google. Also, if such a city does exist (perhaps it is spelled differently), that would be a separate article and should be referenced from the disambiguation page (not from this page). If the city exist and there is no page for it, feel free to start a new article. Tcncv (talk) 02:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Papyrus in Florida

Should we mention that Papyrus is an invasive plant in Florida and causes problems there?76.97.245.5 (talk) 12:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article really only deals with the material produced from the plant. See Cyperus papyrus, the article for the plant itself, where there is a short mention of it as an invasive plant in Florida. Maedin\^talk 13:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 16:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

okay

Typography usage (xkcd)

I came to this page from http://xkcd.com/590/ wondering if anyone wants add a section in main article on usage of papyrus in typography.

This cartoon is not about usage of papyrus in typography. It’s about a font called “Papyrus”. This is irrelevant in an article about actual papyruses. palpalpalpal (talk) 16:26, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Painting

Article understates papyrus production; it is still available from a number of art catalogues including Daniel Smith. Some of my paintings have been done on it, such as my gouache on papyrus The Blizzard (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs992.snc4/76496_10150298837015232_837005231_15926729_6524168_n.jpg). --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 15:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does this make sense?

The following sentence in paragraph 3 of the History section doesn't make sense to me:

 Papyrus was documented as in use as late as the 12th century in the Byzantine Empire, but examples have survived.

Shouldn't it say:

 Papyrus was documented as in use as late as the 12th century in the Byzantine Empire, but no examples have survived.

Since it's an unsourced claim, we don't really know for sure... There's a citation-needed-tag from April 2010. I'm going to hunt around a little, see if I can confirm the info; if I can't, I'm going to remove it. Richigi (talk) 17:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, found reference almost immediately. Article text fixed and cited. Text about "examples" has been removed since I did not find reference to that, one way or the other. Richigi (talk) 18:26, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have a vague recollection about the wording of that passage being changed at some point, but it probably doesn't matter. Anything that's tagged for two and a half years and makes no sense deserves the chop, so I'd say you made the right call. Rivertorch (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How was it made (further reading)

Could these links be added somewhere ("further reading" or "see also")

http://www.lib.umich.edu/papyrology-collection/how-ancient-papyrus-was-made

http://www.lib.umich.edu/papyrus_making/

Specially this

http://www.lib.umich.edu/papyrus_making/lg_intro.html

Very interesting and worthy of being included.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MurkMenthaa (talk • contribs) 19:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Byblos etymology

The article says : "bublos,[14] said to derive from the name of the Phoenician city of Byblos"

But : ^[1]

On a répété que βύβλος est purement et simplement le nom de la ville phénicienne de Byblos d'où le papyrus était importé (Lewy, Fremdwörter 172, Schwyzer, Gr. Gr. 1,141,153). La principale difficulté réside dans le fait que le nom, phénicien Gbl, akkadien Gublu, hébreux Gĕbal, fournirait difficilement un emprunt βύβλος ; on observe aussi que l'adjectif βύβλινος "en fibre de papyrus" est déjà dit pour un câble chez Homère. Aussi a-t-on pensé qu'il a existé un nom βύβλος "plante de papyrus" d'origine d'ailleurs obscure (Alessio, Studi Etruschi 18, 1944, 122-123). Discussion complète chez E. Masson, Emprunt sémitiques, 101-107.

Sorry, I can't correct the article because my english is poor.

90.47.24.224 (talk) 10:11, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Chantraine, Pierre (1968). Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue grecque. Editions Klincksieck. p. 201.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Papyrus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131018121945/http://www-user.uni-bremen.de:80/~wie/Egerton/BellSkeat2.html to http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Egerton/BellSkeat2.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Price?

Is there any information on the amount of work required to make it and about prices of papyrus in antiquity? Especially as compared with the price of other common goods and/or with how much people usually earned in their work? -- 89.182.55.3 (talk) 15:58, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cheaper than papyrus or not?

The article contradicts itself on whether or not papyrus is cheaper than parchment.

Papyrus had the advantage of being relatively cheap and easy to produce, but it was fragile and susceptible to both moisture and excessive dryness.

vs.

Papyrus was replaced in Europe by the cheaper, locally produced products parchment and vellum, of significantly higher durability in moist climates, though Henri Pirenne's connection of its disappearance with the Muslim conquest of Egypt is contested.

So is using papyrus for books cheaper than parchment or not? If it's not a plain contradiction, then my best guess as to what's meant is that's cheaper to use local parchment in (mainland) Europe, but papyrus is cheaper in Egypt and more generally the Mediterranean.

I can't clarify it because the books I have also go back and forth on parchment codexes being cheaper or not than papyrus scrolls, and the popularity of papyrus scrolls really puzzles me in general. Mysticfurywerewolf (talk) 05:13, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Papyrus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:50, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Stylus and ink

It would be interesting for the article to mention early reed stylus and carbon/oil inks used to write on papyrus. —Paleo Neonate – 11:30, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Significant writings on Papyrus

Are there any more significant writings that have been written on papyrus that can be added to this article to give more examples? That section of the article is currently very short. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.185.96.232 (talk) 04:30, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

uk

'dropings — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2404:7A81:2C0:EF00:5031:8BBD:79AB:45B0 (talk) 11:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

okay but what about sans

undertale reference lol Marikirfan (talk) 02:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Chantraine, Pierre (1968). Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue grecque. Editions Klincksieck. p. 201.

[1]