I'm not a homophobe, but I know a number of gays who've felt conflicted by their sexuality, particularly before they've come out or if they're religious. I'd suggest that internal conflict and your identity crisis (English birth, Kiwi upbringing - and accent presumably) are responsible for your borderline psychotic behaviour online. Oh and by the way, I don't particularly dislike New Zealanders either. What I do dislike however, is people with a god complex, and little understanding of a certain political situation pontificating on the matter. --MacRusgail16:47, 24 January 2007 (UTC) p.s. "Why bother?" - to use your words.[reply]
Word up? Sorry, I don't speak ghetto.
Anyone who brings up the sexuality of another as a form of detriment to shoot down an argument in the thin hope that others too will think them witty and clever is indeed a homophobe. You couldn't have said to a black person that they 'obviously have an issue' with their race because they were debating you on icecream or Ladybugs. Accusations of sexual mis-identity, religious conflict or the most poignant question facing mankind: with which accent should one speak, are meaningless and designed to provoke retaliation.
I think that you have completely misread the situation with my passion on these topics. It is precisely that I don't have an internal identify conflict and am very aware of my roots and heritage that I am so willing to defend it, even against nasty Scottish nationalists, who are rendered somewhat incapable to approach a situation that doesn't demonise English identity or history, with a level-headed view. Enzedbrit20:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is every one who is aganist an evil anti - English nationilist, or is that just the way it comes across as you angrily bang on your keyboard? Is my Grammar School and Oxford English readable to you?
"anti - English nationilist ... Is my Grammar School and Oxford English readable to you?" [sic] - 'nuff said.
Leaving aside hostilities for the time being... great photo!!! Congrats. Now, are you the lucky man who married a Scot? Or am I obliged to ask if you are a true Scotsman? ;) --Mais oui!10:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I'd never heard of it. I thought it would've been something to do with Berwick, the inhabitants of whom are rendered Jocks in Newcastle and Geordies in Edinburgh. I'll have to obtain a copy of The Dandy, thank you.Enzedbrit22:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I was thinking similar thoughts. Of course the stereotypical Scot is a Highlander (far away from The Border), and nobody in north Northumberland would self-identify as a Geordie! But it is only a comic after all! Their lifeblood is outdated stereotypes. --Mais oui!09:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure that people in North Northumberland would admit to speaking Geordie. It would've been better had the creators used actual Geordie/Northumbrian stereotypes for the English boys though. For example, dressing them in Northumbrian tartan and puttin leeks in their caps! I notice that in the article of Aschaffenburg where I added the flag of the UK and tidied up the sister-city section, you 'reverted' the flag to the Scottish flag. Previously, there was no flag and a jumbled sentence. I'm sorry but this really does show your agenda of changing the union flag to the Scottish flag for all Scottish sister-cities, not simply reverting flags to prevent a flag war. That's disappointing. Enzedbrit05:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Depends which part of Northumberland, Allan. The Mackems don't consider themselves Geordie, nor does Sunderland. This may apply to parts of rural Northumberland. By the way, it's the "Shepherd's plaid/check/tartan" rather than the Northumbrian one. The oldest example is from Falkirk, not a very Northumbrian place at all. --MacRusgail20:11, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good to see you've decided to come back. I had a bit of a wobble (pun inteded, by the way it's from the Wobble Hypothesis if you've ever wondered, which I've always thought is a great name for a scientific theory) myself recently. I stopped editing a lot of articles that were causing me a lot of stress. I somehow got into editing articles about the concept of "race", and being a biologist and geneticist was incensed at how my discipline was being abused by racists and fascists to further their repugnant agenda. I was shocked and saddened that so many people devote so much time and effort to undermine science to promote hatred. Sad little gits really. But ultimatelly I found it very emotionally draining to be constantly battling, especially with certain people intent on wikilawyering, interpreting every little remark as a "personal attack" and every removal of their lies from an article as "vandalism". I was reported to WP:PAIN several times, then to WP:ANI twice, when nothing came of this the guy kept leaving messages on admins talk pages complaining about me. I got very pissed off and was going to jack it all in, I felt persecuted. But then that's what these people want isn't it? I was advised that I could have reported this guy for harrasement, but I'm not so small minded as the fascists are, it's always about bullying with them, never about truth. There's a nice quote that I like from the Marquis de SadeNever are Tyrants born of Anarchy. You see them flourish only behind the screen of Law. I think it sums it up really, tyrants are only interested in using any means possible to silence their critics. So I thought why should I give in? Anyway I'm glad to see you're back (that doesn't sound quite right). I had a look at the AfD above and voted for a keep, can't see why it would have been AfD'd in the first place really, there's a lot less notable articles than that on Wikipedia. Anyway, keep the faith and all that. Cheers. Alun18:13, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm glad that you're back! I couldn't stay away either. When one has a vested interest in something, one finds it hard simply to turn one's head and ignore what's going on. For example, the English People and Modern Celts artile, particularly the latter, has welcomed in quite a few anglophobic viewpoints. I see your frustration with racists and fascists. It's the same passion I have for things British an Queer, although I'm surpried that the task falls to you to combat the prejudice that you've been attacking. Where are the moderators? As you can probably guess, my current task at hand is defending the dignity of LGBT people through disassociation with NAMBLA, a paedophilic organisation, which some are trying to lend credibility through association with our community. As you can also see (and a message to several others who will be reading this), I'm trying to be provoked into retaliation to serve the self-interest of people half a world away who'd like to see me banned. Fat chance :) I'm honoured though to see that I've earned a few cyber bullies. EPF was just an anti-English pain in the behind. Anyway, I hope that things are going well in Finland. After a miserable start to summer (thank you climate change) we're finally experiencing GORGEOUS weather and I'm able to get a good 5km jog in plus half our swim at Oriental Bay each lunchtime. The water's been so warm. The advantage of NZ - it's possible to swim in water ways and be warm, knowing you won't be attacked by large reptiles or sharks. Astonishingly for Wellington, we haven't had rain in about a week either. Brilliant! Only mid-20's but what more could one expect :) I'm making the most of summer before autumn and the southerlies arrive.
By the way, if you want an awesome pastime (besides work, uni, weekend work, gardening, jogging, clubbing and fraternising with the German internationals, or is that just me?), you should try baking really nice chocolate cakes with proper thick sugary almond icing. You know your frustration and disappointment at weddings and such like when you cut into one of these amazing cakes only to find that it's a fruitcake? Well, bake your own! Make it into shapes, like discus, maps of New Ze... Finland or Britain, use food colouring, etc. It's life's little pleasures! Enzedbrit09:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little concerned by these edits: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. I suggest you read Wikipedia's policy on canvassing editors in a dispute at WP:CANVASS. I have no idea on what basis you selected these editors but your message was clearly partisan. An edit summary of "HELP!" accompanying a message inviting people to "voice your disgust at NAMBLA being included as an LGBT organisation" is not salvaged by adding "if you believe that this is indeed an LGBT organisation, then you're welcome to voice that opinion". The indication of which option you prefer in those terms makes it clearly partisan. In addition, any editor's "disgust" is completely irrelevant. The question (expressed neutrally) was whether a group disowned by a majority of LGBT organization should nonetheless be categorized as a LGBT organization by Wikipedia. That question can be considered in the abstract without becoming emotive about NAMBLA's controversial agenda. In future I would suggest a more neutral forum for soliciting other opinions such as a request for comment or a request for a third opinion.WjBscribe00:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm only happy to canvas as I have been canvassed in the past. Perhaps you should've been there to point previous canvassers to their wrong-doings, and us innocents would learn from their mistakes! However, I appreciate the more useful way of solicting support, and I shall indeed be using it. Enzedbrit02:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Heavens to Mergatroid, as my good friend Snagglepuss would say! Enzedbrit, try as I might, it is difficult to assume good faith when confronted with such damning evidence of attempted vote stacking! You didn't just alert users of a controversy (a violatrion in and of itself), you actually told them to "voice your disgust". Not very Wiki of you. Consider a Wiki holiday, and use the time to refresh yourself on the policies here. I am concerned about your well being. Jeffpw00:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My well-being is fine thanks - I'm not the one sleeping with children. As for NAMBLA, I think that you've escaped quite well from what I really wanted to say. But, in all fairness to me, I did state that, were a user to support NAMBLA's inclusion as an LGBT organisation, then they should voice that support. As detestable as NAMBLA is, people are still welcome to support it. That's democracy. Enzedbrit02:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Have I accused the user of sleeping with children? My well-being has been put to task because I have canvassed. I think that, given the nature of my canvassing, it is entirely apt. Were I accusing the user of sleeping with children, I w... well, I wouldn't do that.
I also find it strange that, were the user a supporter of, or member of, NAMBLA, that you find it nasty that I should have accused them of sleeping with children. NAMBLA is an organisation that advocates, plain and simply, sleeping with children. Would you have me apologise to a man for accusing him of doing something that he would so readily admit to doing and something he would so readily defend? I wouldn't expect to apologise to a man for saying that he is fat were he supporting an organisation that exists to further growing waste-lines. Really, if I had have accused the user of sleeping with children and they were of NAMBLA, then an apology would be preposterous. Enzedbrit03:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the clarification. I'm glad no such accusation was being made. As to your second point, I am unaware of there being any supporters of NAMBLA who edit Wikipedia. If you think everyone who argued for categorising NAMBLA as an LGBT organisation were supporters of it, you are mistaken.WjBscribe03:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do not believe that all supporters of NAMBLA being classified as LGBT are themselves NAMBLA, although I do not see the reasoning for this support, and I am happy with my valued assumption that there will be NAMBLA members or supporters who would make this association, and it is logical that I am not alone in this assumption. In the meantime, I suggest that those who regard this as an LGBT organisation, rather than suggest to me time to refresh and 'read up on policy' actually take the time themselves to study the history of LGBT people and what it means to be part of this community and an organisation that stands for this community, and justify how NAMBLA could possibly be associated with it. Perhaps then, the insult to our people - having to be associated with committed paedophiles - would be one less worry to our gaining of credibility from heterosexual society. Enzedbrit03:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I still think you completely misunderstand what the category is for. It is not for "Organisations that form part of the LGBT community". It is for organisations whose agendas or membership are relevant to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered people. As an organisation interested in promoting man/boy love only, its agenda and membership and clearly related to homosexual men. Therefore it is an LGBT organisation in the broad sense. WjBscribe03:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that I do, and here's my reasoning. As a community, we are subjectified LGBT people. If one doesn't subjectify, or label if you will, oneself as being queer (that's acceptable in NZ as a term) then they're not part of the community. One must see oneself as part of it to be part of it. Men who are members of NAMBLA are such because they advocate sex with boys. Generally speaking, children are non-sexual beings. A man doesn't have to be gay to sleep with (if it can be called such) or molest boys, anymore than a man who molests girls is automatically doing something heterosexual. If a man is only interested in relationships with boys, then I doubt very much he could refer to himself as a homosexual. If anything, I'd say that he was asexual, or at best, a committed paedosexual - I'm creating a term there and I don't know enough about asexuality to my detriment - but certainly not a homosexual. It is a fair assumption that a homosexual is such because he or she is attracted to people of the same gender, not explicitly towards children. Your assumption that man/boy love is 'homosexual', I'm afraid, is damaging to LGBT people (indeed it's a homophobic assumption) and that's nothing to do with NAMBLA. It is the same as saying most paedophiles are gay because they are men and they molest boys, when in reality it's been proven to be about power and most of these men are 'heterosexual'. The simple assertion that man-boy molestion is gay is something that anti-gay groups have been using for decades to incite public hostility. If all members of NAMBLA have to be gay or idenfity as LGBT, then indeed NAMBLA is an organisation composed entirely of LGBT people, but it is not working towards the advancement, empowerment, advocacy or community-awareness of LGBT people. I could call my civil union an LGBT organisation - that would have more legitimacy than NAMBLA would. Enzedbrit03:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(unindent) I don't think paedophilia is recognised as being completely divorced from adult categories of sexual attraction. You get gay paedophiles, bisexual paedophiles, straight paedophiles. Abviously not all paedophiles are homosexuals. But those who are male and solely interested in sleeping with boys are both paedophiles and homosexuals. That does not to me seem like a controversial statement. If NAMBLA (under a different acronym obviously) advocated legalising relationships between adults and children of all gender combinations, they would not be an LGBT organisation. But their focus on only man/boy sexual relations makes them a gay organisation. WjBscribe04:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Per WJB's words about civility, I would also like to remind you to remain civil in your edit summaries. I have been looking through your contributions and see several that border, if not actually cross the line into personal attacks. Continued editing in this vein (canvassing, breaching civility policies, personal attacks) will earn you a block. Consider this an unofficial warning. If I see any continued violations, particularly if directed at me, I will be taking further action. Jeffpw08:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just who do you think you are? Get off your high horse, don't proclaim to threaten me whilst analysing my 'mental state' and watch YOUR contributions or I shall seek a block against you. I am a stakeholder of the LGBT communty, activity involved in it, living my life openly in it and have put myself out in public in numerous occasions in defence of it. I am in no mind to tolerate the belittlement of my people in any way, shape or form, and you're mistaken if you think I'll be cyber-bullied by you. Remember that next time you drag a community's reputation, and in my case, my personal state, throug the muck. Enzedbrit09:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Enzedbrit, I am not the one who is violating wiki policies right and left. Canvassing edits like the ones WJB has pointed out above; implying that I am a child molester for disagreeing with you, and edit summaries such as this, this, and this imply a lack of familiarity with WP:CANVAS, WP:NPA and WP:CIV (and that is just a perusal of the first page of your contributions. No telling what further exploration will uncover). As to your remarks about my contributions, if you feel they have been uncivil you are welcome to seek comment or administrative action. Alternatively, you may also point out examples of policy breach to me; if I feel I was in error I will promptly apologize. Lastly, let me say that I appreciate the fact that you are "a stakeholder of the LGBT communty, activity involved in it, living my life openly in it and have put myself out in public in numerous occasions in defence of it." As somebody who has been actively involved in the LGBT movement since before you were born, it gratifies me to see young people participate, no matter how naive I may see their contributions. Jeffpw09:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Jeffpw, for a start, I am not 'violating' anything left and right. I have accepted the advice regarding 'canvassing' and I have accused you of nothing. So here, it is you that is accusing me of something that I have not done. Disagreeing with me or not, I have not accused you of molesting children. I made a comment that wasn't directed at you about sleeping with children, not molesting them, a reference to the people that I hold in abhorrence who DO sleep with children, are proud of that fact, have organised NAMBLA to proclaim that, and that is why we are having this nasty debate. So, I now expect you to withdraw your false accusation against me and apologise, thank you. I do not doubt my passion in the past has been out of hand, but I shall not apologise for this. Please, cite me if you shall, because I am happy to build a similar case against you, and believe me I shall. As I say, I don't like bullies and I'm afraid that this is what you are. Now, I'm grateful to the older generation for what they endured 'before my birth' with regards to the rights that I have now as a queer man, but any support to paedophilia and the attempt to legitimise this by embracing it as part of the LGBT movement is not something that I will condone, and you can rest assured that you've not seen the end of this debate, trying as you are to shut me up. As for debates on Modern Celts, etc., my passion extends to racists and Anglophobes. Enzedbrit10:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've also just looked at those links. What's wrong with my edit summaries? 1 - I reverted not only something that is historically INCORRECT but also anti-English. What's your gripe? 2 - do you object to 'bloody'? Welcome to NZ English 3 - and as applied to most of what I change, I actually (unlike most) go to the effort to justify my changes in the talk pages and welcome debate on them. Others will simply add without explanation and revert what I do likewise without explanation. The case of "Scottish are closely related to Scots-Irish" was one such case that had no justification, made no sense, and nobody had bothered to cite or explain how it was relevant, which it isn't. If you want rid of me because I detest NAMBLA, you'll have to do better than cite my changes on a completely unrelated topic. I'm off to bed. Ka kite ano. Enzedbrit10:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We've thoroughly discussed your violation of WP:CANVAS. Far from accepting the advice, you said you plan to continue that behaviour. Regarding the first edit summary I provided above, calling another editor racist is not assuming good faith. Please read that guideline. In edit #2, you push your POV about NAMBLA. Your summary of the organization is completely contrary to their stated mission, and potentially libelous. In example #3, I find calling another editor's contributions "rubbish" to be more than a bit uncivil. Finally, for the sake of clarity, nobody is trying to "shut you up". I and others are merely trying to point out that while perhaps your heart is in the right place, your actions are contrary to how Wikipedia functions. Jeffpw10:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Again it's about what I have said and haven't said, and I haven't called the user racist. I haven't said that I would continue to canvas, I stated that I am happy to do it but will follow the advice given in the future. There is nothing libellous about what I've said - come on! You're really clutching at straws at this in an effort not to back down. As for another editor's contribution as rubbish, the statement as given WAS rubbish because it was false, not based on fact, incoherent, made no sense. That is what rubbish is and your sensitivities are extreme to find offence at the use of rubbish as a description. You and ANOTHER - not 'others' - are indeed being deliberately provocative and, in your case, are doing so in a way that reveals your own hypocrisy. Shall we continue? Enzedbrit20:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't looked at all the edits in question here, but you definitely accused someone of racism. You need to keep your edits limited to discussion of contributions, not contributors. I'd like to help you argue that NAMBLA doesn't belong in the LGBT category, but you need to get your behavior in check, immediately, or you will very likely find yourself blocked. Don't take this as a threat. Take it as an opportunity to have a nice cup of tea and a sitdown, please. — coelacantalk — 21:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between calling somoene a racist and citing them for racism. I have reverted an anglophobic statement and have said that racism isn't tolerated on wikipedia. I really fail to see how this is in any way a violation of anything. My edits are indeed to contributions, and these paternalistic comments are both extremely patronising and vexatious, and comments such as you'll find yourself blocked are actually threatening, jumping on a bandwagon that has no basis. My posts aren't attacking individuals but they are in opposition to the majority position so it is easy for those of that opinion to state that I am indeed attacking them and then come out with we'll have you blocked if you don't play nice - right... Unless you think 'get over yourself' is a tremendous insult, but if that's going to get one barred from wikipedia, I'll be well rid of it. Thankfully, it is not. I'm glad that someone is happy to debate that NAMBLA isn't LGBT, but keep it to the debate at hand and leave off the debators. Remember, it is you and others who are pursuing me into my talk space to comment on my 'behaviour'. Shall we continue? Enzedbrit23:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although I will add that I find it frustrating that you should make a comment to have a cup of tea and watch my behaviour, because what you are suggesting essentially is that my contributions to the discussion aren't welcome at all, even though they have not been out of line. I have combatted each differing opinion with my own logic, and it's that logic that's not welcome. I shan't back down in my resolve, and that's unwelcome in a forum with a majority opinion contrary to my own. Which position is this realistically to put me in? I don't see your logic.Enzedbrit23:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I understand why you're frustrated here, but there are appropriate (within accepted Wikipedia discussion norms) and inappropriate ways to express that and try to make the case.
I personally agree with you on point, and all the LGBT people I know find the categorization grossly offensive, and I find its use by anti-gays to be grossly offensive. But you need to calm down some. Georgewilliamherbert01:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the revert of vandalism. It is always insulting to be told things such as my wedding photograph are offensive. I'm also going to list you on the ANI, all by myself. No charge. Enzedbrit03:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So now I have to learn the Wikipedia system so that I can search through DFFS or whatever they're called. Mate, you must have a lot of spare time on your hands. But, as you've gone to the trouble to cite me, I'm happy to repay the favour. Enzedbrit03:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You seem confused on a few points, Enzedbrit, so I shall clarify for you:
1) I didn't list you at ANI. Dev did, after seeing your comments on another user's page. I had no interaction with Dev about your behaviour prior to your being listed there.
2)*Going through a user's contributions solely to cause trouble for them, when you have no reason to believe they are anything but a user in good standing, violates WP:STALK. Posting me at ANI is also a violation of that guideline.
3)You probably haven't read WP:DR, so I shall paraphrase step 2 for you: "If discussing the conflict doesn't help, disengage with that editor". That is what I shall now be doing. I advise you to do the same. Wikipedia is a very large place, and we don't need to interact. That said, if you continue in your campaign to improperly remove LGBT articles from appropriate categories, we will continue to butt heads. I think WJB said something about a Rfc on this issue, so perhaps it's better if we all let the community as a whole decide this issue. Jeffpw09:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi mate, just a note to say I think you are quite right, there's a lot of POV pushers here on Wikipedia and sometimes it's difficult to deal with them. I think there may be two reasons for the problem you are having with this child-rapist group. While it is true that many authoritarian-fundamentalist religious organisations might want to imply that the homosexual community is associated with child rapists, I think there is also another reason for the association. The child rapist organisation may see it as in their interests to try and associate themselves with a respected civil rights movement, this makes them appear less extreme, an implies that their agenda is no different to any other civil rights agenda. Ultimately they are trying ot portray themselves as a persecuted minority rather than a group of deeply emotionally disturbed individuals. Just a thought. By the way, I read your discussion and though I thought that the comment "I'm not the one sleeping with children" was probably ill-advised, I don't really see how it constitutes a personal attack. I suggest you appologise for any offense and say that you didn't intend to insult anyone. Try to keep a cool head, I know it's difficult sometimes when sensitive issues are being discussed. I have found that people with a POV to push often provoke good faith editors so they cant hen accuse them of being uncivil when they respond to the provocation. Anyway, all the best, and keep up the good work, I think you are 100% correct. Alun06:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I don't know why a picture of two people in love with each other would be inappropriate. I undid a blanking of your user page and asked the IP who did it not to do so again per
WP:NOT#CENSOR. Now I see you blanked the page yourself after another attack, it's your choice and I respect it. Just to let you know, if you decide to put it back, let me know, I'll put you on my watchlist and I shall do my best to revert any vandalism I see. Cheers - Myanw08:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In spite of our differences of opinion, Enzedbrit, I think the pic on your userpage was lovely. I have reverted vandalism once, and if you decide to put it back on I will revert whenever I see it happen again. That's one of the purposes of watchlists. By the way, do also consider joining the LGBT Project. You obviously have an interest in the issues. Cheers, Jeffpw09:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just to tell you I have reverted your edits to Briton, the article is about citizens of the United Kingdom that includes people who where not born there. --Barryentretien20:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that you're mistaken. The article is about the modern identity. British citizens are covered by another article. Even then, one should be weary about reducing the number to 60 million as there are millions more British citizens in the world than the 60 million people who reside in the United Kingdom. As an ethnic identity, more than 100 million people are of British heritage, and not all British citizens are indigenous Britons, with about 10% having no native/first nation connection to the land at all. Enzedbrit21:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I think I see some of the issue. Yes, indeed, the article is about the modern identity (slash ethnicity), but there are overlaps between the modern identity and British citizenship. As a modern term it is, almost intrinsically, tied with identity towards the British state - hence the ethnicity-or-not debate, about which I stand on "hell, ya, why not?" side. However, please stop confusing Briton with Brython, a people, for the sake of clarity don't you know, also called Briton. Brythons can for sure be called indigenous people. The modern identity, Briton, began as an effort to claim an affinity with those people for political gain - and hence, its linking with the modern British state from the very start - however, it ties with the ancient people are stretched at best, and out-right false if one was to be cynical.
There is a modern identity of a Briton but there is also an ethnic classification. It doesn't matter when one started to view the term politically and every identity is viewed anachronistically because of how meanings change. I am not confusing Brython with Briton either. Languages and cultures always change but that doesn't mean that ethnicity has to be redefined. For example, if Americans all start speaking Spanish, do they have to re-examine their American ethnicity (those that regard themselves as such). I don't believe that they do. Because we speak a Germanic language and live in a multi-cultural Britain, why do we cease being ethnic Britons? Why do we cease being indigenous because several thousand Angles and Saxons invaded and set up shop? Why should only Cornish and Welsh be allowed to be indigenous because they speak the modern version of a language that was introduced by invaders from Europe 500 years before Christ, displacing the original language of the ancient Britons? Enzedbrit23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Again, a British person is what? Simply a citizen? I'm a British person not just because it's one of my citizenships, but also because I identify as the term in an ethnic sense. I haven't ceased to be British because I live in New Zealand, and I see no need to further identify as English or Welsh, yet even if I did, it wouldn't make me any less of a Briton as, like the majority of British people, my ancestors were the first to dwell in Britain. Some might say 'how do you know this?', well, that argument can be applied equally to any human being, any ethnic group, so I won't need to answer that Enzedbrit23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is an identity/ethnicity/civic identity. There is a separate article about British citizenship. The Briton article does not discuss citizenship.
I have not doubt that you are a blood relation of one Brython or another, but you are not a Brython, those are an ancient people, you are a Briton, a modern person, and a direct ethno-cultural link does not exist between the two. (Don't let the name confuse you.) --sony-youthtalk00:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've never claimed to be a Brython and I'm sorry if you've read me saying that I am as I could have sworn that I made it quite clear that I wasn't saying that. I'm also scratching my head at how you can imply that I'm not descended from my own ancestors. The Brythons didn't go anywhere you realise, they just kept having children, and those children had children, and so on, and so on, and then I was born. Along the way, some Angles, some Saxons, some Scots, some Vikings, some Normans all came along in small numbers and had children with the Brythons, then the Romano-British, then the Britons, and as a result we have about 130 million people today whose ancestory is primarily descended from the indigenous people of Britain, who are indeed ethnic Britons. The article on Britons started off that way and has recently gone off tangent. When I have time, I'll start a new one. Enzedbrit02:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In fact I said that I had no doubt that you were "descended from [your] own ancestors." Please see the article on ethnicity, I think you are confusing it with genealogy and ancestry. --sony-youthtalk08:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although there is scope for your definition in this article, there is for mine too. It's probably best that neither of us presume to know what the other is thinking Enzedbrit20:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK, sounds fair. I think we are talking at cross purposed anyway - but with an identity/ethnicity as unusual and complicated as British this is quiet easy.
With a mind to a fresh start, I've moved the talk page to an archive. I've also added a todo list. I propose that this is a good way that we can both see what each other have in mind before going any further. I've added a few items to it.
You should also know about dave souza. He is an excellent editor I met on British Isles. Scottish, I think, but I could be wrong. UK anyway for sure. You should look him up too. I asked for his help in taking the Briton article up to a "good article" status and form there to "featured article". He said he's drop by and help where he could. I think getting a GA rating for the article and A rating for importance on the WikiProject Ethnic groups scale is an immediate task.
On your user page, for your "I'm not British" box, why not add the modern flag of Northumberland, used by many as a symbol of the modern Northumbrian people too Enzedbrit20:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Never heard of a strong Northumberland identity akin to the traditional nations. The flags there now are of the main political entities/identities today, with the exception of Cornwall which I included since it is considered by many as part of the "celtic nations" and have a long standing independent identity movement. --sony-youthtalk22:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You're right in that there's probably not much of a Northumberland identity akin to the home nations but there is a very strong Northumbrian/North East identity. Many people there refuse even to identify as English, and the Geordie dialect as a common name for the dialect spoken throughout the north east is regarded by many as its own language! Cornwall is a Celtic nation indeed. Maybe too, with future developments, Northumbria might be regarded as a Scandinavian nation with its own tartan and bagpipes - who can say. Enzedbrit02:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. I have to say that the North-East identity is unique to England and whereas there is a fair amount of segregation between two certain major groups, we can certainly unite in agreement that we are communally as well as ethnically different to the rest of Northern England. Apologies for the late reply. gazh23:22, 04 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I disagree. If a same-sex civil union was a wedding, then legally they would be called weddings and thus form a marriage. Legal battles remain to be fought over the legality of creating an institution called gay marriage in most countries and states around the world. However, at this time, most countries and states still don’t recognize something called a gay marriage. Specifically in New Zealand, there is no institution called gay marriage. Thus the image shows the legally binding definition of a “civil union” as it is defined in that country. Even the definition for “Same-sex marriage” on the Wiki site delineates the two different designations. I merely corrected a miss-definition within the caption. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mactographer (talk • contribs) 05:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
That's the problem. Wedding is not a legal term. Marriage is. Wedding is an event, etymologically attached to the term in old English which meant 'pledge'. People can enter into a marriage or a civil union by a wedding, by signing at a registrar's office, by a small gathering that has a celebration but isn't self-classified as a wedding, etc. Gay marriage is not legal in New Zealand but civil unions are open to same-sex couples. If a gay couple wishes to have a wedding for their civil union, then so be it. Wedding does not equal marriage, and vice versa. Therefore the caption as I had it is correct: it is a same-sex wedding. The wedding is the ceremony and civil union entered into through a wedding Enzedbrit20:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for not signing my last message. FYI, someone using an IP address removed the photo in question. It wasn't me. Someone else has returned it. I won't change it further. Appreciate your modification tho. --Mactographer04:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(Posted to user Mais Oui!)
By your own admission, to flag war is to change flags consistently. Well, I have created 'twin town' categories now on several articles and when doing so, have used the nation state of the United Kingdom. You, a true flag-warrior, have averted them to Scotland. No doubt, you would avert others to England too. What is more, to several of these changes you have justified yourself by 'reverting' and advised not to flag-war. Now I see that you are reverting changes without any justification in the talk page or reasoning behind them, such as Scottish-Americans and Kilt. This is trolling. So, in offence at being called a troll, you now revert changes under justification that you've been called a bad name. A complaint shall be forthcoming.Enzedbrit21:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I had some problems with Mais ouis! when I wanted to change the name of the article "Population genetics of the British Isles",(here) I originally changed it to "Settlement of the British Isles (before 1066)", but somehow this offended his nationalistic sensibilities. Somehow some people get awfully offended by use of the term British. Like there aren't more important things in the world to get upset about!!! I take the attitude that petty nationalism is more to be pittied than despised. What annoyed me was the lack of any attempt to find a consensus, this is typical of the Wikipedian POV-pusher. I suggested two alternatives, "Prehistoric settlement of Great Britain and Ireland" or "Prehistoric settlement of the British Isles". Mais ouis! accepted Prehistoric settlement of Great Britain and Ireland, which was fine by me. The problem as I see it is that we need to look for a compromise. I notice that both you and Mais ouis! have accused each other of edit waring, but any edit war requires two edit warriors. I suggest that you try to find a compromise you can both live with. I suggest that, in the case of the flags for twinnig, you include both the Scottish and the Union flags. I can't help much. You could open an RfC on his behaviour, but I think you need to show that you have tried to solve the problem in a constructive way first, and I think that at the moment you are just contradicting each other. I suggest trying to find common ground, how much are you prepared to compromise? Try to find out how far he is prepared to compromise. It really is better to try to work it out rather than anything else. Try to assume good faith, here's some amusing reading relevant to assuming good faith that might help Don't be a dick, Don't be dense and Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice. Basically we are all trying to work towards the same goal, but we all see the world slightly differently, in order to reflect that we need to try to incorporate all significant points of view here, this basically means that you need to try to come to a consensus with Mais ouis! I have had problems with him as I say, but we managed to come to a solution, this can only be acheived by compromise and discussin. I suggest that you try not ot comunicate in threats, and also that you try not to communicate via edit summaries. One other thing you could try is mediation, try the more informal Mediation Cabal first. Good luck. Alun05:51, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
NZBrit,
I very belated congrats on your wedding (as per Image:Gaywedding4.jpg). It is a great picture, capturing the affection that you have for your man, and the tenderness that is reciprocated. It doesn't matter the gender of the subjects - actually, that is mostly unimportant. The important thing is to see the love that is being shared. This picture really does show it, much better than some of the posed pictures of other weddings. I like it. A lot.... Again, congrats to you two! - NDCompuGeek11:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying, categorizing, and improving articles of interest to the LGBT community. Some points that may be helpful:
Our main aim is to help improve LGBT-related articles, so if someone asks for help with an article, please try your hardest to help them if you are able.
Monthly Challenge: June Stub Review! Take a moment and sift through the roughly 3,600 Stub-class LGBT articles. Are they still stubs? If not, make an assessment change. Even better, do you see anything you can add/edit to increase the rating? Let's see if the project can lower the number of stubs down below 3,000!
Project News
WP:LGBT Exceeds 200 Members!!
Two editors have been selected by project members as co-coordinators. Their duties are still a bit unclear, but having a few more janitors around the project will help keep us running smoothly. Please feel free to message Fireplace or SatyrTN if you have any project questions or concerns.
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, just ask Dev920. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let her know.
While trawling through the recent changes, I noticed that you made what could easily be considered a rude and abrasive edit summary. While you were quite right to remove any information regarding your name, please do so in a civil manner. Thank you.--NeoNerd11:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies - I was posting a message to MacRusgail and had followed the thread from your dialogue with him and posted it here by mistake! Ben MacDui(Talk)20:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure anyone has bothered to inform you, but this article which you started was nominated for deletion on June 30, then relisted to get more comment. I've just added some info, in hopes of saving the article. --Ace of Swords18:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Monthly Challenge: Submit an article to our Jumpaclass competition! Languishing unloved, it is a great way to improving that article you always meant to improve but never got round to. Challenge someone else to go head to head and see who can improve their article most!
Our Deputy Coordinators have been doing a fabulous job so far. Well done!
The portal is now looking very snazzy, well done to Fireplace for all his hard work.
The list of LGBT people to be sorted has now beed reduced by 20%. Please help us with it, all of us adding just one person a day would have a dramatic effect!
The Core Topics is now largely complete. The original aim of getting some kind of publication out of it is extremely long term - any short term uses we can make of it are welcome on the project talkpage.
A suggestion was made this month that we start our own wiki. Although the conclusion was that we felt we were a part of Wikipedia rather than a stand alone organisation, it seems there is an LGBT wiki already, at http://lgbt.wikia.com/wiki/Main_page . Members may be interested in getting involved there.
The Collaboration is now getting rather short on suggestions. Article nominations for August through December would be welcome on the talkpage.
There is now a list of Missing LGBT Topics. Help is needed to work out which topics can be made redirects or need to be created. Please contribute is you can.
An LGBT banner that was created for Wikipedia's internal ads system has now been adapted so it can be placed on blogs and websites. The html is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:LGBT"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Qxz-ad48.gif" height="53" width="445"></a> Please credit Miranda and link to her userpage: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Miranda">Miranda</a>. The banner can be seen in action here. If you have a blog or a website, please consider adding the banner, either in a post or as part of your profile.
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.
I'm a recent arrival to Wikipedia (6 months to be precise),and you my freind are the biggest arsehole I've come across. I wish I could give you a Barnstar or something for your achievement, maybe sometime in the future the world will find a use for people like you(arseholes) so we can all indulge in giving you the credit you deserve.... an Arsestar perhaps Kerronoluain14:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Message from Coordinator: It's been almost two months since the last newsletter came out, so there are a fair few people who haven't really been kept up with our project. I'd like to welcome all those who have joined and those who have returned, and strongly reccommend that you use the talkpage for any queries or problems you have. Happy editing!
Article News
The ongoing effort to create a comprehensive list of LGB people has begun to bear fruit - /A AND the /W-Z lists have been featured! Congratulations to Dev920 and SatyrTN who nominated them respectively. Please consider pitching in the the remaining lists to help us get them finished before the end of the year.
Project News
WP:LGBT now has an IRC channel! It is #LGBTProject on Freenode. Users without IRC or Xchat can use the java app at java.freenode.net to access the channel from their web browser. Hope to see you in there sometime!
David Shankbone has taken a LOT of photos. An idea has been mooted to create a page for listing people who are willing to take images in their area on request, please give your thoughts here.
Considerable discussion has recently been held on our coverage of same sex marriage, civil unions and domestic partnerships. You may be interested to read it.
The list of LGBT people to be sorted has now been reduced by over 30%. Please help us with it, all of us adding just one person a day would have a dramatic effect!
A gay cabal conspiracy ghost has been created to do with what you will. :)
Wooh, massive gay conspiracy...
Member News
Since the last newsletter was released, we have had more members been labelled inactive than who have signed up - please consider recruiting a few more people if you can, a WikiProject is only as good as its members. :)
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How do? I just wanted to say thanks for your edit on the 'Geordie' page, i've been trying to get that hideous piece of POV off the page for months, it appears your nonchalant handling of it has worked out canny, no one has reverted it back yet, cheers! Gazh14:10, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it was wrong of me to do but I'm glad that doing it has been appreciated. Nobody I know would ever take offence at being called a Geordie and I don't count the drunken banter of a few lads in a Sunderland pub as sufficient reason to put it on Wikipedia. The whole article really doesn't sit well with me. We're from coastal Durham and although not real Geordies, are the first to acknowledge that we all still speak Geordie. Enzedbrit00:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It difficult to explain, and the root of this definatly goes beyond a few lads in a pub. Rejection of the term Geordie is relatively new i will admit (80's), but that doesn't make it less notable, everyone under-30 born and raised in Sunderland will reject Geordie that i am 99.9% sure of, and yes it does involve football there is no getting away from that, but let's look at facts, Sunderland is a city of 180,000 people, the football team regularly fill their 49,000 stadium - 49,000 out of 180,000 is a big percentage of adult males (majority of the crowd fit into this category), and all of these would be offended if you called them a Geordie.
Inside of the region the word 'Geordie' has never meant 'North-east' anyway, it always meant Newcastle.. but when outsiders called us Geordies we let them for some odd reason. Even today in places like South Shields and Washington, if you talk to people about Geordies you are talking about people from Newcastle, but when spoken to by outsiders they will accept the term for themselves.
It just comes down to how general or specific you want to be i suppose, but in modern times some people reject the more general term, including myself and thousands like me, and because i cannot find an internet source it will be questioned, which is utter pish imo. I would love someone to come and survey the city, what a source that would be "180,000 reject geordie" - it would be great. Gazh09:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The LGBT studies project has been rather quiet of late. Though we've added over 180 new members in the last year, only a small percentage are active participants. If you haven't visited our project or talk page in a while, please stop by for a look. Also, if you happen to bump into another editor who you feel might enjoy working with us, please extend an invitation. There's lot's do do, and the active members would sincerely appreciate some help.
Our Peer review project is struggling at the present, with only a few people reviewing the articles. While it is certainly possible to submit articles for a general peer review, a review by members of the LGBT community can be of additional value for LGBT specific writing. There are several articles currently up for review on a wide range of topics. At the very least, reading the articles will undoubtedly broaden your intellectual horizons :-)
At the moment, David Le Brocq, Malmö Devilants and Trajectory Hermeneutics are up for deletion review. Please take a look at them and make your voice heard at the deletion review. Articles nominated for deletion also present a challenge for improvement. See what you can do, and watchlist our deletion review page.
The Pederasty articles continue to be a point of controversy both within and outside of our community. Various editors have suggested that to include them as LGBT Project related somehow taints the project and brings Wikipedia into disrepute. Other editors have stated that the articles, and especially the Pederasty article, are part of the core of LGBT studies. Well meaning editors continue to remove our tags from the articles themselves as well as the talk pages. If you have time, please read the articles and watchlist them to protect them from vandalism and well meaning but counterproductive edits.
The list of LGBT people has survived its 4th nomination for deletion. Please watchlist this list to protect it from vandalism and unsourced additions. There are many in Wikipedia who would like to see this Featured status list removed from the project. It is up to us to keep it to such a high caliber that it never is removed.
Our project member David Shankbone is now working as a journalist for Wikinews, as well as continuing to improve our project and Wikipedia as a whole with his photographs. A sincere thank you goes out to him for all of his hard work. Wikipedia would not shine nearly as brightly without your contributions, David.
Happy Halloween, everybody! Be happy and celebrate!
The surviving life partner of prominent LGBT rights activist Barbara Gittings recently called one of our editors and, among other things, complimented us on what a great job our project is doing on Wikipedia. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this project, either through their article edits or support for other project members. We really are making an difference here!
Member assistance
Some of our project members have been having difficulties related to editing on the encyclopedia. If you are feeling frustrated or distressed by your editing experience, please don't keep it to yourself. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, and we are all here to help one another. Drop a line on our talkpage or on another editor's page, and other members of the LGBT project will happily give you the support you want and need.
Lastly, Halloween is just around the corner. More than most holidays, Halloween is a holiday embraced by and tailor made to our community (though God only knows why we are invisible in the Halloween article here. Perhaps somebody would like to rectify that editing oversight). Have fun, everybody, and remember to both trick and treat!
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Hey, Peeps, it's that time of the month again (no not that time — get your mind out of the gutter): time for another monthly edition of the LGBT Project'sLove Boat newsletter from your cruise directorMiss Julie. So much has been happening this month and I just can't wait to tell you all about it!!!
Let's start with some good news: Alice and the project lost the bothersome sock puppet who had been disrupting many articles we monitor, and now most of us can edit in relative peace. Congratulations, Alice, for being able to come out of semi-retirement. Benjiboi, on the other hand, has gained an anonymous IP stalker who seems to be more Catholic than the Pope and who has a hard-on for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. We seem to have a sort of Yin and Yang thing going on here, which helps both to keep us in balance and on our toes <bright smiles all around>.
Albus Dumbledore got outed this month, and was immediately adopted by our project. The international brouhaha surrounding this disclosure reached all the way to Wikiland, and his article was briefly locked due to homophobic vandalism (as well as well meaning editors who just couldn't believe that that nice man could possibly be gay). This is a wonderful article to add to your watchlist, and will surely give you hours of reverting fun on cold winter days.
On a more serious note, Fireplace has suggested a new article series about LGBT rights in the United States, state by state. This ambitious topic will surely require many editors and a lot of research, but has the potential to add further prestige to our already prestigious project.
Francis Bacon (not the new gay one, but the old gay one ... though they're actually both dead, now that I think about it) has also aroused passions here on Wikipedia, with editors opposing his sexuality being disclosed in his biography. The always helpful Haiduc has thoughtfully provided any number of sources, but it is slow going getting his point across. Anyone want to lend a hand?
And speaking of passions, Jack Kerouac has inflamed the senses once again with editors, including administrator Irishguy, mounting a spirited defense to keep him as heterosexual as possible for Wikipedia purposes. Why? I don't know. Perhaps some of you can drop by the talk page and ask your questions there. I feel certain a stimulating debate will ensue that will be enjoyed by all.
Did you know that one of our Featured articles, Lawrence v. Texas, lost its shiny gold star? That was a shocker. It has been suggested that we turn our attention to it in an effort to restore it to its former glory. I took a peek, and it does need our help badly. For our American editors, it would seem almost a civic duty to edit it (not that I'm hinting....).
Though it was far too intellectual a debate for a mere cruise director like myself to take part in, Intersexuality was certainly a hot topic a week or two ago. The thrust of the debate was over inclusion in our project. Lots of good editors had lots of good opinions. For those too lazy to check out the discussion, we decided to leave it out for now.
Peer review is, as always, short staffed and seemingly unloved. Wouldn't you feel better about yourself and the world in general if you took a few minutes to read one of the listed articles and offer some helpful advice? I know I'd feel better if you did.
The article LGBT movements in the United States certainly raised eyebrows last week, especially when it was discovered that copyrighted content had been added to our article. Tragedy was averted at the last minute, though, when the original hosts of the article where the material had been pilfered agreed to make it free to everyone. Our thanks to them, whoever they are. Busy Bee that I am, I haven't had time to read it, but I'm sure it's sensational.
Not content to run for Best Actress, plucky Bannon won a Best supporting actress Oscar... whoops, I meant to say Ann is also getting more than her share of womanly attention on the Good Article list. Joining her on this exalted plane are Freddy Mercury, Waylon Smithers and Lance Bass. Good articles indeed, and the last one mentioned just goes to show that one needn't admire the subject of an article to appreciate the effort put into making him worthwhile reading. What on earth Britney ever saw in him I'll never know. Truly a riddle cloaked in an enigma and wrapped around a puzzle.
On a personal note, your already overworked cruise director is being cyberly whipped almost daily by Nemissimo, who desperately wants to get the German BDSM translation copy edited and used as a replacement for the current one. It's such a ... err, stimulating topic that I am sure many of you will want to join the copy editing fun. Jump right in, folks! It's so lonely copy editing it all by my lonesome!
A little birdie just whispered in my ear that our noble collaboration project was delisted from the Community Portal due to inactivity. When asked how this scandalous turn of events could have occurred, the answer I received was "we suck at stuff like that". Well. In the first place, I disagree that sucking should be considered a negative, but to each his or her own. In the second place, I have full confidence that we can and will collaborate with other projects in the future. So let's not view this as a setback (even though it is), but rather a challenge to improve (and good Lord, I sound almost Wikipedian!).
Lastly, the holidays are rapidly approaching. Our American cousins are currently getting ready to slaughter masses of poultry in an effort to show their gratitude and generally peaceful demeanor, and those of the Canadian persuasion, trendsetters that they are, celebrated a bit early this year. I'm sure all us foreigners will join together in wishing them all a very happy Thanksgiving on their respective holidays, both already celebrated and forthcoming... though I would hope somebody would enlighten me as to why they don't celebrate it on the same day. I was awake all last night trying to figure that one out.
In the spirit of this peculiarly North American holiday, let me take a moment to thank all of our editors for their contributions to this project. It's people like you who make people like me...well, a "people person"! May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon.
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Quelle Suprise! King James is a Queen!
Our dear Haiduc, never a stranger to controversy, recently decided to delve into the wardrobe of the British Monarchy, and what did he discover? King James had more than appreciative eyes for strapping young men! Naturally, Haiduc felt the need to share this news with the community, but instead of being praised for his scholarship, he was reviled. In fact, one rabid heterocentrist even rummaged around in his own wardrobe until he found an old pair of socks to play with. All seemed lost until astute editor Jeffpw noticed some odd postings and did some sleuthing of his own. The socks were uncovered, the Wicked Witch was melted and readers the world over were able to learn that Good King James regularly ordered tube steak from the menu of the day. Thank you, Haiduc! Thank you, Jeff! And let Miss Julie add (for readers who might not know) that tube steak tastes just like chicken!
It's Britney, Bitch!
Well, maybe it's not Miss Thang, herself, but it's the next best thing: Chris Crocker! he stirs up just about as much controversy as his idol does, even here on Wikipedia. Though it's all a bit of a muddle, one of our editors hopes you can drop by the talk page and leave a message of hope for those battling the forces of obstructionism in that little corner of the Wiki World. It is so hard to spread enlightenment. As Miss Parker herself said, "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think".
Game show for nerds
Wallowing in cash from the latest beg-a-thon, the powers-that-be have decided to sponser a little contest here to improve the articles, with a Grand prize of $100. Yeah. Just enough for a Burger King dinner for the family. Still, the thought is nice and the goal is noble, so we should support it. Our little Queer beehive has taken a look at what's on offer, and both the Greek Traditionalists and Daughters of Bilitis are well represented. The ever useful SatyrTN has made a little list, which can be found here (if that malignant bot hasn't archived it already, that is). So find a pal, roll up your sleeves and dive right in. Let's show this Encyclopedia just what Queers with firecrackers up their....err, I mean, let's show the others what we can do.
Jón Þór Birgisson
I can't pronounce his name, but he's awfully cute, he's deliciously foreign, and best of all...he's GAY! But he won't be for long, if certain users have their way. A concerted effort has been under way for a while now, designed to neuter poor Jon (pretend I put a little accent thingy over that O) and make him into a sort of rockin' Ken doll. So please watchlist this hunka man, and keep him queer! If anybody questions you, tell them "Miss Julie sent me".
TranSanta
Everybody loves a sequel
Readers not afflicted with Alzheimer's will remember that last month we had a little story about Alice and her harasser. That proved so popular that we bring you the sequel: Benjiboi and his stalker. After a chance meeting at the Michael Lucas article, this anonymous user took a shine to our Benjiboi, and has been showering him with attention on virtually every board on Wikipedia. Flattered though he is, Benjiboi finds the attention a bit distracting, and administrators have been seeking various remedies for this. It has proven difficult, as the stalker has an IP address that changes quicker than Superman in a telephone booth. So perhaps some of you would like to watchlist Benjiboi's page, and lend a hand if you see some love letters from an 11 digit friend. I was actually thinking we should get Alice's harasser and Benjiboi's stalker together. Then we could have another sequel, sort of like Freddy vs. Jason. Any bets as to who would win??
Not quite the second coming, but special just the same
Let me be the first to give a warm, wet, Love Boat kiss (though not with tongue) to our newest Project members: Jacksinterweb, Cleduc, Pigman, Becksguy and Iamandrewrice. Even in the month of our Saviour's birth, your popping into our Wikipedian lives is a blessed event indeed. As Jesus Himself said, "Live long and prosper". He did say that, didn't he? I think he said it. In any event, if he was standing next to me now, I'm sure he'd say it, and add, "Happy homo editing!"
Battle of the Wikipedia Stars!
Indomitable Ann Bannon is holding her own in Wikipedia's answer to American Idol: The Featured Article candidate list! For four feverish weeks, she has mastered the challenges and not been eliminated from the competition. Drop by the FAC page and show Ann you love her....or give her the hook (I'm not supposed to tell you how to vote). Giving our plucky Ann reason to hope is the recent promotion of List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: Sa-Sc. If Miss Julie has her way, we will have the entire alphabet of Queerdom Featured here on Wikipedia soon! And I would be remiss if I did not give a warm, Lesbian salute to our own Belovedfreak, who showed Wikipedia with But I'm a Cheerleader that even pom poms are no protection from the Love that dare not speak its name, and got a gold star for her efforts.
Climbing the Wikipedia career ladder is User: Tim1965, who has not only written, but is now promoting Reel Affirmations to Good article status. Best of luck, Tim, and remember: there are no small parts, only small actors. We're sure you'll be trading that green circle for a gold star soon (assuming you get the green in the first place!).
Santa's on his gay way!
Santa needs elves
Yes, I know: packages need buying, trees need trimming, egg nog needs drinking. The holidays make many demands on our time. It's ...well, it's a bitch, is what it is. So I wouldn't blame you for skipping this little section and putting off my request until next year. But...think of the children. Our future. They need quality information about the homosexual "lifestyle" if we are to indoctrinate them properly. That's why I am asking you to drop by our Peer review area and give your meaning as to the efforts of your fellow gay Wikipedians. And think: in this season of kindness and good will to all, isn't it nice that I am pointing you to someplace where you can (in a Wikiloving way, of course) rip someone a new asshole? Think about it...and those children with their shiny, bright eyes, thanking you for contributing to their future.
Even more festively, consider joining in on the deletion discussions of our favorite articles. Here you can bandy about such words as "homophobia", "Right-wing Christian agenda" and my personal favorite, "just who do you think you're pushing around?!?!?". If you play your cards right, there might even be an extra present under the tree for you. :-D
Urgent Christmas appeal Tovojolo asked me to ask you to edit Elizabeth Bishop as part of the Collaboration Project. She's an old dead poet (Miss Bishop, not Tovojolo. I've never actually met Tovojolo. She's probably very young and attractive. Maybe somebody should ask if she's single), but she was a flaming homosexual long before most of us had even been conceived, so we owe her some respect. Tovojolo actually asked me for the last newsletter, but Miss Julie forgot. Bad Miss Julie. She was so busy boosting morale it just slipped right by her. Nemissimo, maybe you need to crack that whip again to get Julie back in line.
Surrender, Dorothy!!!!!!! Friend of Dorothy has attracted the attention of a group of....the more senior elements of our gay society. They disagree with our thesis that Saint Judy was the possible source of the term, and demand we change the article to reflect their contention that Dorothy Parker was the origin. The problem is, their source didn't check out. So we agreed to disagree. Well, we at the project did. They got kinda mad at us, said unkind things, and started edit warring. Though they are old, they are certainly quick, and could revert the article faster than my nimble fingers could press the undo button. To quote the divine Miss Parker, every time I saw the article on my watchlist, I thought to myself, "What fresh hell is this?". The page was protected by sympathetic administrators, but keeping an eye on it will keep Dorothy safe from future Wicked Witches of the West or East.
Ambrosia
Our dear Benjiboi has been busy indeed, lately. He recently made fruit salad out of Fruit, turning a once nasty word into a damn good article, and saving it from deletion! Congratulations, Benjiboi! I hear he has turned his attention from fruit to poultry now. Before he is through, he will have turned every major food group gay on Wikipedia!
Christmas came early
Yes, indeed! Valued administrator WJBscribe was raised out of the mire of mid-level management and placed squarely into the Pantheon of Bureaucracy! And Miss Julie is just too proud of him not to mention that he got the most support votes in the history of Wikipedia! Congratulations, WJB! We know you will not prove the Peter Principle correct!
You!
Yes, you! It's you who make this project shine! It's you who make Wikipedia such a valuable resource for all humanity! And it's you who make Miss Julie's dull life just a little bit better. So I want to take this moment to thank each and every one of you for all you do here. Merry Christmas, everybody! Happy Hanukkah! Festive Kwanzaa!Delirious Dong Zhi!Delicious Diwali! And for our oppressed Iranian brothers and sisters, I wish you a safe and joyous Yalda. And if I didn't mention your favorite December holiday, well, it's because I feel it's so special I should just keep it between you and me. Always remember: You light up my life!
May we all have a joyous holiday season, and a safe, healthy, happy and prosperous 2008.
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Ms Julie is .. unavailable .. this month, so Isaac and Gopher have stepped in to put this newsletter thing together. We may not be as funny as you're used to, but if you'd like a free drink, come see me at the bar. That might help. Maybe. And no, there aren't any flashing lights or fancy pictures this month - I'm still recovering from a whopping hangover. Julie's recovering too, but that's a story I'll let her tell.
Two New Featured Articles (and...)
Emma Goldman was promoted to Featured status on 2007December 27. If you don't know Ms. Goldman, she was a Lithuanian anarchist. Aren't many of those around, really, so having one of our very own is special. She'll be dancing the Cha-Cha on the Promenade deck later tonight.
Ann Bannon was promoted to Featured status on 2007December 3. Faithful readers may remember Moni moaning that we didn't mention this promotion in the last newsletter. Happy now?
The marathon efforts of Dev920 against her astonishing abilities of procrastination continued this month, and she managed to update the Portal's main articles. Whether she will finally beat her procrastination pixies in submission and update the biographies remains to be seen, but Jeffpw has leapt to the rescue and taken it upon himself to do all our lovely news. Friends, lend us your goodwill and your eyeballs, and mosey on over to see all Jeff's hard work.
Also, back in October 2007, Allstarecho and Benjiboi worked diligently on the "WP:LGBT Random Quote" and "WP:LGBT Random Picture" sections of the portal. They added many new quotes and pictures but, and yes here's the cat's meow friends... you can now use these on your own user pages! To add the "WP:LGBT Random Quote" to your own userpage, use: {{Portal:LGBT/Quotes}} And to add the "WP:LGBT Random Picture" to your own userpage, use: {{Portal:LGBT/Pics}} If you'd like to see it in action, check out Allstarecho's userpage for both in action and Benjiboi's talk page for the Quotes in action!
The long, slow race toward FP status continues...
Bisexual Awareness Month
Folks in Utah are celebrating Bisexual Awareness Month. For our own wikicelebration, Alison suggests we try to bring Bisexuality at least up to good article status. Working on the Utah article would be encouraged, but do it stealthily - they don't like us to be *too* open.
A cunning plan
In a move sure to bring her fame and fortune at last, Dev920 (talk·contribs) has proposed that an FA buddying system be set up, to help nudge frightened tikes who also happen to write killer ass articles over that initial first FAC hurdle. Anyone interested in shepherding duties, or anyone interested in being made to lie beside still waters (handcuffs are optional), do drop Dev an RSVP so she can start battering those darned pixies...
Zigzig20s has mentioned a desire to work on .. desire. Specifically literature by and about LGBT desire. To facilitate "LGBT Literature" taskforce, there will be shuffleboard and lesbian fiction on the foredeck later in the afternoon. Signup if you're interested.
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Project member Moni3 has been working on the article for Barbara Gittings and noted that the Lambda Literary Foundation used the lead paragraph from Wikipedia, skillfully and lovingly written by Moni3, verbatim in the Lambda Literary Pioneers calendar. Moni3 contacted the Lambda Literary Foundation to let them know, and to ask if we could get a little write-up in the next Lambda Book Report. There is a preliminary text you can find here. Feel free to add to it. It should be no longer than 1,000 words, and it needs to be submitted by March 15.
Place yourself in a user category so you can collaborate with other LGBT/Allied Wikipedians!
Mostly for allies of LGBT people; To place yourself in Category:Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues, just add [[Category:Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues|?]] to your userpage and change the question mark to your username OR add this userbox by placing {{User:UBX/LGBTinterest}} on your userpage.
Mostly for people who identify as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender; To place yourself in Category:LGBT Wikipedians, just add [[Category:LGBT Wikipedians|?]] to your userpage and change the question mark to your username OR add a userbox found at User:Xaosflux/UBX/Sexuality#Sexual orientation.
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Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! I'm not one to be writing newsletters, but I miss our cruise director, Miss Julie, and our project is drifting along with a few leaking plugs in the bottom of the boat. Hey, it happens. Every group we join goes through changes. If Wikipedia weren't so interesting it wouldn't also be so frustrating sometimes. And vice versa. More than one Wikiproject has tumbleweeds blowing through it, but this is one that can't afford to let that happen. Even if you pop in to the talk page of the project, you can let us know you're still around.
It wouldn't be a proper gay community without a li'l bit o' drama! That's right. If we aren't arguing about something, then we should be asking if we're still queer. Maybe that's for the best, since we know we're still kicking. Our most recent topic is how far the role of our project should go in dipping our toes into HIV/AIDS articles. The main AIDS article was delisted as a Featured Article last month, sadly. (Sending a swift kick to WP:Medicine.) A spirited discussion is available for your entertainment on the WP:LGBT talk page about just how much of HIV and AIDS should we take on. As ever, we'll take your opinions under advisement. We're going to have to, because it doesn't seem to have been settled.
We have a pretty cool sidebar that identifies core LGBT articles. Its symbol is the iconic gay pride flag, much like other Wikiprojects have iconic symbols denoting the topic is a core subject in a series of articles. However, a question recently arose asking if the symbol itself is not neutral. Should a pride flag show up at the top of the article on Conversion therapy? How else would anyone know the article is about queer issues? Is there another symbol that is as widely recognized and that includes all our many splintered facets? At what point do we stop asking ourselves all these questions and just go have a mint julep on the verandah and stop caring?
For the love of all that is holy, no Kool Aid jokes. However, an editor involved in pioneering San Francisco Supervisor Harvey Milk's article has included a section about the late supervisor's support of Jim Jones and the People's Temple. While it may be accurate, there is a Request for Comment regarding how much emphasis the section places on Milk's support in light of his overall political influence on the city, and indeed the rest of the United States. Milk's article is a sad one in more ways than one. It lacks the detail and heart that honors its subject. Anyone want to do a barter with me? I'll bring Harvey Milk to featured status (give me a month or two so I can read stuff), if you do something of equal value to WP:LGBT?? Make me an offer...
The established branch of study known as Queer studies was brought up as an category for deletion because an editor was offended by the use of "queer" in the title. It was overwhelmingly rejected mostly by the usernames I see here on our Wikiproject page. (A clue that I know you are out there, hiding...biding your time...) So, I wish I could congratulate you, but now I'm all confused by my sympathy for the editor who was offended. So, if you're reading this, Moni has a short memory and can't remember your username. Don't be put off by our demonstrative pushiness. Join us. We can always use involved editors.
What can you do to help the project out? Be a wiki-fairy, on many levels. There are all kinds of articles that need help. Why, just this morning I removed those ugly wikify and cleanup tags from four articles at random. If you can put [[ ]] around stuff, you can clean up articles. There's a list of articles that need attention at the top of the WP:LGBT talk page. Or you can start with the Lambda Literary Awards, where the goddess of my altar received a pioneering award, and was "reduced to rubble" by Katherine V. Forrest's wonderful speech. The 20th ceremony of the Lambda Literary Awards, which celebrates LGBT literature, took place in West Hollywood on May 29th [9]. The page needs to be updated with the new winners, to be found on the official website [10].
Why on earth would someone want to delete material about homosexuality? 'Tis truly a mystery. But these embattled articles have some random evil gnomes removing information that places these folks under our queer umbrella. Help us keep an eye out for the deletions. Take a peek at the articles, familiarize yourselves with the info, and be handy with the undo function in the article history. If tempers flare, take it to the Hall monitors and let them sort it out. Best solution is to make sure your sources are immaculate.
This is what I get for opening my big fat mouth and suggesting the newsletter should be revived. Here I am writing it. So, to pat self on back (*cough*) Mulholland Dr. became a featured article in May. This is A Good Thing since it is my personal declaration that there is no such thing as lesbian porn. I don't care what Benjiboi says about the video collection at goodvibes. Instead, we have hot women who connect on a deep, personal, soul-touching level, so this film should qualify as some of the skankiest porn available for lesbians. Plus, it's completely confusing and surreal! D'you think Laura Harring would care that the article is featured? I don't think so either... (Call me, Laura!)
Once I saw a harrowing episode of Animal Planet's Animal Cops where this guy had, like, 250 cats in his house and it freaked me right out. I'm drawing a parallel between 250 cats and, well...three, really, templates in articles involving LGBT issues. Can we stick to one, maybe? In the aforementioned Harvey Milk's article there's a core LGBT template, a link to the LGBT portal, and a sidebar for LGBT rights. Jiminy! You'd think we weren't the folk to set industrial grey carpeting and track lighting in vogue. An LGBT footer was designed to link to articles of interest that aren't the aforementioned core articles. What do you think, can we have either an LGBT template for core articles, a footer for LGBT articles that are high profile but not core, or an LGBT rights template? As ever, anything's up for discussion on the WP:LGBT talk page.
It's June, Pride month. Wear sunscreen, stay hydrated, get a designated driver, then go half-dressed in the streets find a girlfriend or boyfriend, or some homo who's standing there looking lonely and kiss 'em up real good. Remember, it all started 39 years ago when a bunch of drag queens just got fed the f*ck up by the cops raiding the bar and dragging them all out to the pokey again. Rock on, queens! Enjoy your celebrations. My town's is in October, and 200 people attend. I miss Denver.
It looks like we've picked up a lot of talent lately. We have no doubt you'll be making your indelible mark on LGBT knowledge as we know it, here at Wikipedia.
In the immortal words of Miss Julie, "May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon."
We miss you, Miss Julie, as well as all the others who have graced our project and are on wiki-breaks or just got fed up with all the nuttiness and went to live their lives. Get your stupid houses built and hurry up and come back. --Moni3 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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I have nominated GayNZ.com, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/GayNZ.com (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Naerii10:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An unfortunate effect of a group less active than in the past is that our articles lose integrity. This one is at Good Article Review for that reason. The talk page is quite active as a result. You have the opportunity to help. This is the corest of our core articles, and it needs some attention because it gets a lot of controversial input from many sides. If you can spare any time to edit the article, please do what you can.
Soon after we were informed that Homosexuality is being scrutinized, we heard the same for one of our few Featured Articles. As a participant of the Featured Article process, I think this is actually a good thing. The standards for Featured Articles are getting higher with time. But as a member of this project, that means that a few of ours may be de-listed unless someone can swoop in and save them. This one has to do with the designation of homosexuality as a crime in Germany. Most of this article's sources are in German. If anyone has any particular skill in this area, please lend a hand!
I know you folks think I have much experience in a gay bathhouse, and I hate to disappoint you, but I actually do not. I seem like the sort of person who likes to stroll about in a towel. Shocking, no? It appears that Ashleyvh is single-handedly addressing all the problems with this article at its GA Review. While that's pretty impressive, it's also no doubt exhausting. Can anyone help out there?
In what I hope will counter the jolt of re-evaluating three Good or Featured Articles, José Sarria and Janet Jackson as gay icon passed as Good Articles, and Black Cat Bar (famous San Francisco oft-raided gay bar) is nominated, all by Otto4711. Rock on, man. You're a machine. Good luck with your nominations. What is it about women that make them gay icons? And are there lesbian icons that aren't lesbians? How about bisexual icons? Am I the only lesbian who reacts with soul-trembling fear at the sight of Angelina Jolie?
New WP:LGBT studies member Pinkkeith has done this cool thing. If you click on that link, you'll see all the articles, categories, templates, and miscellany up for deletion. They're usually there because they're not considered to be not notable. That can be a relative concept, and sometimes it has to be argued that topics pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender issues are notable.
It seems a recurring issue which articles to tag, and what to say about a topic that's tagged. Certainly, because an article falls under our scope doesn't necessarily make the person gay. Florida Governor Charlie Crist has been rumored to be gay in some newspaper accounts. Although we all know Fred Phelps is supergay, he won't admit it so instead he does the absolutely awfulest anti-gay things on the planet to deflect suspicion. NAMBLA, the red headed stepchild of the LGBT world, is tagged with an explanation we have yet to decide if we'll keep.
In the lurking I do around and about on Wiki, I've long been astounded at the forbearance Benjiboi has for the utterly insane. Perhaps not so much, since the message on Benji's talk page notes frequent absences due to homophobia and transphobia. But it takes some kind of ... something that I don't have to face the constant anti-gay POV Benji does.
Benjiboi is a a bit of a WikiFaerie, a WikiGnome and also a member of the Article Rescue Squadron in addition to being a LGBT project member. A few of Benjiboi's favorite links for making the wikiverse more fab are:
Becksguy didn’t start actively editing until May 2007. His most frequent tasks on Wiki include reverting vandalism to LGBT articles and creating new project-related articles. He comes from New York state, and to prove not all of us are teenagers (ha! I am so totally 15!) he's in his 60s and retired.
Becksguy considers his biggest triumph on Wikipedia so far was a DYK in December 2007 for the first-ever newspaper report on what became AIDS, in the New York Native. He's also helped save several project-related articles from deletion. His lowest moment here was getting involved in the discussion on a particular terrorism related article, thinking he could help calm the roiled waters on an extremely contentious subject with multiple edit wars and passionate editors.
Here at WP:LGBT, he creates and improves articles that present notable LGBT related subjects in a fair and balanced way, and tries to include more of the significant alternative sexuality related subjects without being an activist, and works to better source project-related articles.
On Wikipedia as a whole, he says, "I think we need to learn better what processes work for a massive collaborative project. Some of what worked well for a more informal small project doesn’t scale up well. Process is not as important when the participants know each other. We need to get more of the current members to be more active. If more members were energized, the project would be able to accomplish more. We should be, in effect, the smaller and included Wikipedia for LGBT related subjects. Overall, I wish we could focus more on content creation and improvement, and less on vandal fighting."
"A Supreme Court decision in 1958 reversed a 1956 ruling by a federal district court that U.S. postal authorities were correct in prohibiting the mailing of the Mattachine Society's ONE magazine. The lower court had ruled that ONE was not protected by the First Amendment because the magazine's contents 'may be vulgar, offensive, and indecent even though not regarded as such by a particular group ... because their own social or moral standards are far below those of the general community ... Social standards are fixed by and for the great majority and not by and for a hardened or weakened minority.'" - Michael Bronski in Pulp Friction, 2003
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Wake up WP:LGBT! It's time to kick in gear and get some things done!
Project News
Wake up!
I say this to myself as much as I say it to all of us. I work a lot by myself or with individual editors who spend time at Featured Article Candidates. It seems on November 5 a fog was lifted off my brain that helped me realize that we have massive potential in this project to get things done. Take this allegory, for instance: On Wednesday, Nov. 5, 1980, my 10th-grade American history teacher started class by unfurling The New York Times. She pointed to its triple banner headline: “Reagan Easily Beats Carter; Republicans Gain in Congress; D’Amato and Dodd are Victors.” “Save this paper,” she told us. “This is the start of a whole new era.”Judith Warner from The New York Times
It definitely seems a start to a whole new era now. If planets align correctly to remind us that whatever advances we may have made in electing what appears to be an extraordinary president in the US, the moons that revolve around those planets also serve to illustrate it's not that simple. Florida, Arizona, and California all appear to have banned same sex marriage. As someone who was married in California and lives in Florida, this is particularly poignant. We seem to be at the juncture of two converging paths. If we maximize our efforts and take the right ones, we might just be able to affect some change for ourselves.
Though what we do is an interesting hobby for some, we have the power to make a difference. California's ballot initiative to ban gay marriage was a fierce fight. It's being challenged right now, but just look at how Wikipedia played a role in that: in October 2008, 360,238 people read its article. On November 5, an astounding 467,000 people read it. I commend the editors who work on that article—both those who support and oppose it. A look at the talk page shows a concerted effort to keep it civil and accurate.
What can we do?
How do you fight ignorance? With information. That's what Wikipedia is for. This project is overwhelming with 8,576 articles in its scope. We can continue to work piecemeal as we have in the past, or we can focus on goals. These are examples of areas we can concentrate on.
Current political events
LGBT Media and Literature
LGBT History
Sex and sexuality
Articles about political issues in the US and around the world that have been especially relevant within the past 5 years
Depictions of LGBT people and issues on television, film, newspapers, magazines
Topics about gay rights activism and the opposition to it
There are more than 8,000 articles to work on. Can we build a list of priorities? Can we build enough enthusiasm to work on these? What if we had editors who oversaw progress in these areas and reported to the talk page or in the newsletter? Surely someone here wants to report on the progress of sex articles.
Tony Perkins (irony) from the conservative Family Research Councilwas heartened by the recent passages of gay marriage bans. The Republican Party is without direction. What's going to take the place of a moderate voice will not be pleasant to our ears. Watching and improving articles of subjects that have opposed gay rights in the past will be of vital importance very soon, I predict.
But WP:LGBT is not a very active project
All we can do is start somewhere. The first step is answering this newsletter on the project talk page. Join in the discussion.
More things we can do
Give out more barnstars, and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
Create a guide to stave off burnout, because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
Bring back the monthly collaboration project.
Participate in LGBT Peer reviews.
Get familiar with the characteristics of Good Articles and get our top priority articles to WP:GA.
Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and support to your fellow editors.
Keep the project talk page informed of problems and discussions we should know about.
Proposal: Put Importance Levels on articles
If this was decided long before I was a member, maybe it's time to revisit it. Other WikiProjects, such as WP:Novels determine that some subjects have an importance category: Top, High, Mid, Low, or None (undetermined). If we decide that our most core articles, it might help to organize which articles to address first. Top importance, for example, would be Gay, Homosexual, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Sappho, Oscar Wilde, Stonewall riots, for example. High importance would be Homosexuality and psychology, Harvey Milk, Mattachine Society, Harry Hay, or Daughters of Bilitis, and so on. This can be a matter of discussion, or perhaps we could have someone in charge of determining these levels for all the articles we have tagged.
These are the editors I've seen working (and I know I'm forgetting a few). There's more of you out there I haven't seen. Some of you are new. We need all of you. Please help.
Miami, January 18, 1977 after the gay rights ordinance was passed: While Bryant and the others were creating the beginnings of the repeal effort, (gay activists) Basker, Campbell, Kunst, and the other (gay rights) ordinance supporters congratulated themselves on their success and then quickly disbanded... There was no organized recognition or celebration of the victory. As one activist remembered, "We just went home." They had little idea of the battle that was before them. - Fred Fejes in Gay Rights and Moral Panic, 2008
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Why not? Not all the uses were disputed. It was a nice picture. If you don’t want to share anymore no one is going to make you, but it was better, in my opinion, than most of the currently available same-sex wedding photos. --WikidSmaht (talk) 09:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
??? Then whose is it? The consensus was never that it couldn’t be there, just that it needed to be sourced and tagged. Did you ask your photographer and s/he refused to allow it? Because unless that’s the case, you can freely upload it, you just need permission of whoever owns the rights to it, and to add the appropriate copyright tag. --WikidSmaht (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How do you change the world? You can start by writing an incredible article for the world's encyclopedia. Moni3 kicks it old school again with Stonewall riots - a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969 at the Stonewall Inn. [...] [T]hey have become the defining event that marked the start of the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. It's a featured article hitting the mainpage this Sunday to mark the 40th anniversary of the events. So first off, wow! Clever and cool. Moni3 has been recently named hottest delegate to Obama's bookclub but that may not be official yet. (Shhh!)
Otto4711 mentioned that gee we really should swamp the DYK section with LGBT-related articles for use on the 28th as well. We have eight or so in the holding area and if you push yourself to get an article together you might be able to get in on the fun. Do this now!
The official rules for DYKs can be found here. Once you have expanded an article 5-fold or created an article with at least 1,500 characters of prose, place your DYK thread here. Use this handy tool to count your 1,500 characters. As a suggestion, when you add your potential hook, include the character count and a link to the source(s) that confirm the hook. These will be confirmed anyway but may help.
The layout for the individual quotes is here (just copy/paste into one of the red links on Portal:Transgender/Random quote). Then this counter has to be upped to match the new # of total quotes (not counting quote zero).
Obama proclamation
On June 1, President Barack Obama declared June 2009 Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, citing the riots as a reason to "commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans". Excerpts at the bottom.
F*ck me I'm famous
I was interviewed by Wikipedia Signpost, the weekly in-house newsletter, for the WikiProject report. The Signpost has nearly 1,000 Wikipedian subscribers and arguably many of those folks actually read it. It came about rather quickly and my worst fears - that it was an elaborate hoax by a troll - were apparently unfounded. I hope y'all feel I did fine by the project, I did my best to avoid the phrase "man-humping, cock-sucking, doggy-style loving queer" but otherwise did ok.
Free image appeal
A friendly reminder to consider taking photos while you're out and about at various Dyke marches and Pride parades. Consider donating them to the world at Wikicommons. I'm sooo totally over having to deal with lovely images being deleted and argued about. If they are just free they are then also freely usable worldwide. And no, they don't need photos of your cha-cha or hoo-hoo-dilly.
Sonny and Cher's daughter was a famous lesbian and now he's a famous transman, possibly the most famous in the world. This also serves as a friendly reminder that we recently updated Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Guidelines - it's not perfect but should help inform on those gnip-gnop battles that do seem to drag on, and not in the good way.
As part of the redecorating at our talkpage, the article alerts and keyword search alerts are handily located at the top of the page. Always fascinating to see what's up. All help appreciated on those.
Glambert
Adam Lambert is soooo gay - surprised? Neither is anyone else. Nuff said. David Ogden Stiers was outed but apparently he wasn't terribly in either.
The LGBT studies project does have its own free Internet Relay Chat channel, #wikipedia-en-lgbtconnect, for coordination, collaboration and socializing. This channel is hosted on Freenode and can be accessed in one of two ways: If you already have an IRC client, click the link to the left. If you do not have an IRC client, you'll need to get one installed on your computer first. Once you've done this, then click on the link to the left.
For more general information on IRC and a listing of other useful Wikipedia-related channels, see Wikipedia:IRC channels.
The project had at one point another channel at #LGBTprojectconnect but as the original people associated with the setting up and administration of that channel have seemed to have disappeared, this new channel has been set up. Plus the new channel is inline with required naming conventions for Wikipedia related IRC channels. So, feel free to use this channel. Such a channel gives opportunity to discuss the latest happening on articles, the LGBT project itself, latest happening in your life with "wiki-friends" here, etc.. You can say things on there you normally wouldn't here on Wikipedia (keeping it civil of course) like talk about the latest hot guy/girl or tell a joke.. you get the point. Anyway, see you there - eventually!
LGBT to-do list (held over from last edition)
Give out more barnstars, and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
Create a guide to stave off burnout, because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
Bring back the monthly collaboration project.
Participate in LGBT Peer reviews.
Get familiar with the characteristics of Good Articles and get our top priority articles to WP:GA.
Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and support to your fellow editors.
Keep the project talk page informed of problems and discussions we should know about.
“
There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. [I]n both the White House and the Federal agencies -- openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism. [...] LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. [...] As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. [...] I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists. - Barack Obama, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, 2009, The White House (June 1, 2009).
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Hello Enzedbrit! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 454 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Hi there-- I saw that you voiced your opinion regarding the usage of the words comedian and comedienne on Talk:Comedian. I started a Request for Comment on that talk page to sort out whether or not the word 'comedienne' should be mentioned in the first sentence of the article 'Comedian'. You can vote here. Thanks for your time! :) Newyorkadam (talk) 01:14, 15 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam[reply]
Hi Enzedbrit. In case you are not aware, there is an upcoming campaign to improve coverage of LGBT-related topics on Wikipedia, culminating with an international edit-a-thon on June 21. See Wiki Loves Pride 2014 for more information. If you are interested, you might consider creating a page for a major city (or cities!) near you, with a list of LGBT-related articles that need to be created or improved. This would be a tremendous help to Wikipedia and coverage of LGBT culture and history. Thanks for your consideration, and please let me know if you have any questions! --Another Believer(Talk)16:04, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What?Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
When?June 2015
How can you help?
1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!
As a participant of WikiProject LGBT studies, you are invited to participate in the third annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign, which runs through the month of June. The purpose of the campaign is to create and improve content related to LGBT culture and history. How can you help?
Create or improve LGBT-related Wikipedia pages and showcase the results of your work here
Document local LGBT culture and history by taking pictures at pride events and uploading your images to Wikimedia Commons
Looking for topics? The Tasks page, which you are welcome to update, offers some ideas and wanted articles.
This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. The group's mission is to develop LGBT-related content across all Wikimedia projects, in all languages. Visit the affiliate's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome! If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's talk page.
Hello Enzedbrit! Follow the Wikimedia LGBT user group on Twitter at @wikilgbt for news, photos, and other topics of interest to LGBT Wikipedans and allies. Use #wikiLGBT to share any Wiki Loves Pride stuff that you would like to share (whether this month or any day of the year) or to alert folks to things that the LGBT Wikipedan community should know. RachelWex (talk)
For more information about Wiki Loves Pride, → click here ←.
The Wikimedia LGBTQ+ User Group is holding online working days in May. As a member of WikiProject LGBT studies, editing on LGBTQ+ issues or if you identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community, come help us set goals, develop our organisation and structures, consider how to respond to issues faced by Queer editors, and plan for the next 12 months.
We will be meeting online for 3 half-days, 14–16 May at 1400–1730 UTC. While our working language is English, we are looking to accommodate users who would prefer to participate in other languages, including translation facilities.
Hello Enzedbrit! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 454 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:
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