Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sunny jim
Sunny jim was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Either an advertising character for some cereal in an unspecified country a long time ago, or a colloqialism. Not sure anything can become of this. --Ianb 23:53, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- keep revised version. --Ianb 16:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Delete: It's a mess. Ok, whatever advertising spokes-toon it was, "Sonny Jim" is an insult (see Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolfe, if you don't know it elsewhere). This must be British, since the comedian in question is. Factually untrue and mostly irrelevant. Geogre 01:31, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Keep and cleanup. No time to research this now, but Sunny Jim and the advertising campaign Force cereal are considered to be landmarks in the history of advertising. 100 greatest ads of all time 'n' stuff. He may have been an early case of a cartoon character being successfully used to promote a product. The reason why it has some kind of meaning in popular culture (whether or not the article is accurate) is because for a while Sunny Jim was a household word. He's in the same pantheon as the Gold Dust Twins, and Phoebe Snow ("said Phoebe Snow/About to go/Upon a trip to Buffalo/My gown stays white/From morn 'til night/Upon the Road of Anthracite"), and Buster Brown, not to mention Aunt Jemima, Betty Crocker, and so on. I see that our Advertising article's section on the History of Advertising isn't very good, by the way... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:50, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Oops, present article is identical to http://website.lineone.net/~ssleightholm/dict/glossary/sunnyjim.htm . Maybe too short to be a real copyvio, but...
- Oh, there is a TON of stuff about this on the Web. Article at http://www.salemstate.edu/sextant/volXII_2/SEXT-essay-sunny-jim.htm says Sunny Jim is cited as "a classic example of a costly failure, one in which the advertising created great interest in the trade character but failed to sell the product" but that this is not true. An image of a 1903 poster at http://www.postergroup.com/details.asp?posterid=8845 . Force tie-in merchandise at http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/FORCE.htm . Looks as if it's a British cereal. Looks as if it really is spelled FORCE in all-caps. Does it still exist? Reading some more... of the salemstate article... Started in the U. S., then introduced into Britain. This looks like a very interesting topic to me. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:50, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- I guess there could be an article here. Someone want to write it? BTW, Sunny Jim is also a popular brand of peanut butter in the Pacific Northwest, not sure how widely it is distributed. -- Jmabel 02:06, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
- I made a start. And the article is no longer a possible copyvio. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 02:45, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- wow, I didn't know breakfast cereals went that far back. Thanks! --Ianb 16:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Oh, my, yes... they were a significant cultural phenomenon. They started out as health-quackery stuff, served in the sanitariums at Battle Creek and elsewhere, I think a little before the turn of the century. If you want to see a fairly amusing movie, check out The Road to Wellville sometime. The story of shredded wheat is interesting, too—they were originally supposed to be a kind of instant gruel, i.e. the intention was that they be mixed in hot water and left until they had a (disgusting) soft, watery, pudding-like consistency. People decided that they were a lot more palatable eaten while still crunchy, and the rest is history... Sorta like the story of brandy being intended to be a preserved-wine concentrate that would be mixed with water to reconstitute the wine at the end of the shipment, until it was discovered that people liked it undiluted. Anyway. The histories of cereals and advertising are sort of intertwined because they were, at least in the U.S., some of the very first nationally-distributed and marketed food products and some of the first for which modern-style advertising campaigns were conducted. H. G. Wells has a funny reference to cereals in Tono-Bungay. Some patent-medicine entrepreneur are discussing strategy and one of them says:
- "There's all these patent grain foods,--what Americans call cereals. I believe I'm right, sir, in saying they're sawdust." "No!" said my uncle, removing his cigar; "as far as I can find out it's really grain,—spoilt grain.... I've been going into that." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Oh, my, yes... they were a significant cultural phenomenon. They started out as health-quackery stuff, served in the sanitariums at Battle Creek and elsewhere, I think a little before the turn of the century. If you want to see a fairly amusing movie, check out The Road to Wellville sometime. The story of shredded wheat is interesting, too—they were originally supposed to be a kind of instant gruel, i.e. the intention was that they be mixed in hot water and left until they had a (disgusting) soft, watery, pudding-like consistency. People decided that they were a lot more palatable eaten while still crunchy, and the rest is history... Sorta like the story of brandy being intended to be a preserved-wine concentrate that would be mixed with water to reconstitute the wine at the end of the shipment, until it was discovered that people liked it undiluted. Anyway. The histories of cereals and advertising are sort of intertwined because they were, at least in the U.S., some of the very first nationally-distributed and marketed food products and some of the first for which modern-style advertising campaigns were conducted. H. G. Wells has a funny reference to cereals in Tono-Bungay. Some patent-medicine entrepreneur are discussing strategy and one of them says:
- wow, I didn't know breakfast cereals went that far back. Thanks! --Ianb 16:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- I made a start. And the article is no longer a possible copyvio. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 02:45, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- It's a famous campaign example in advertising & business communications texts, and the character was well enough known to enter the language as a colloquialism that lasted for several decades; I'd say it's notable. Keep. -FZ 15:57, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. Wikipedia would be improved by many, many more pieces of mostly forgotten pop culture and trivia of the past to balance the flood of current trivia. Now an excellent article. Jallan 18:12, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Keep: I'd never heard of this campaign, but found it an interest read. I endorse the comments about the preponderance of modern trivia over ancient trivia too. Trivia is good. GWO 19:37, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.