Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Template:Listdev

Content is "This list is incomplete. You can help Wikipedia by adding to it." All Wikipedia articles are incomplete. I've been deleting this template wherever I come across it, because it's redundant in the nature of Wikipedia. RickK 04:51, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

• At least it should say something different, probably "lacking in content" instead of incomplete. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 07:54, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

• Send to clean up for now, maybe eventually delete. Alternately, delete and create a new "incomplete list" template. As it stands now, the "incomplete list" template is being misused, and you're right to delete it when you see it. You're absolutely right that Wikipedia is, by its very nature, incomplete. But consider, for example, a list of provinces in a country. Straightforward, objective lists like these are capable of being completed. When they're not complete yet, an "incomplete list" template is appropriate. Of course, most lists are subjective, constantly growing, or potentially very extensive (e.g., a list of car parts). The use of an "incomplete list" template is pointless for lists like that.

  Looking over the list of pages using the current template, I see a large number of lists that are essentially as complete as they're ever going to be. These should be removed in clean-up. But in the end, I think that an {{incomplete list}} template is a good idea, but it should be used very sparingly, and only for objectively completable lists.

  Side note: there exists {{expand list}}, which is basically identical to {{listdev}}. The two should be merged (into "expand list", I think); both are frequently used for inappropriate lists. (See also: Wikipedia:Incomplete lists, Whatlinkshere:Listdev, Whatlinkshere:Expand list) • Benc • 08:27, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• I'm not sure Clean Up will know what to do, since we're really talking about a copy rewrite and a change of Wikipedian habits. I can see a use for a template like this. If a person is writing a list and means to keep coming back, it's a handy way of flagging their work to keep returning to it and to flag all the other listmaniacs. It also might keep a list off VfD, if it's incomplete and in process. That's a possible use for something like this, not this. I agree with deleting this template, but I think the inappropriate use of it isn't really something VfD is going to do anything about. It'll just raise tempers. Geogre 12:42, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Don't delete, but revise. It seems to me that there are three basic kinds of lists we could expect to find in Wikipedia:

1. Lists that could be completed. This includes any list that might reasonably be complete in some form for some reasonable time interval. Examples: U.S. rivers, national capitals, area codes in the North American Numbering Plan, members of any music group. All of these have changed over time, but can claim stability long enough for Wikipedians to establish a completed form.
2. Lists that are expected never to be complete. This includes lists that cannot be known to be complete, as well as ones that are theoretically "completable" but are so large, dynamic, or imprecisely defined that they are sure never to be complete in an objective sense. Examples: most lists of songs, performers, movies, people, etc.
3. Stub lists: Lists that have barely been started. They may ultimately be of either of the above two types, but they currently include only a tiny fraction of the eligible entries.

(Of course, this list itself has its fuzzy boundaries. For instance, a "pop song chart positions" might be completed in any given week, but only with significant effort, and is so dynamic that calling it complete is a bit misleading.)

I would suggest scrapping the overlapping {{listdev}} and {{expand list}} and replacing them with something like {{incomplete list}} and {{dynamic list}}, as well as retaining {{Stublist}}. "Incomplete list" should claim that it is "completable", but is not yet considered complete. "Dynamic list" should state that it is never expected to be complete, but is still a useful resource for finding members of the list. All three should request assistance in completing, adding to, and/or revising the list, as appropriate for each list type. Finally, there should be a very brief description (1 or 2 lines max) that describes how the tag is supposed to be used, and that description should be shown wherever the tag is described (currently Wikipedia:Template messages). If the template message is sufficiently clear, this description may not be necessary, but the current "listdev" and "expand list" tags don't really make their expected usage clear. — Jeff Q 14:00, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Delete: redundant with Template:Expand list, which (along with Template:Stublist) should be kept. Per Jeff's suggestion, I've created Template:Dynamic list. -Sean Curtin 14:35, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Keep. This should under no circumstances simply be deleted. It serves a useful function. As for whether to rename it or merge it's functionality with another template, I am OK with this in principle. I'll have to mull over the specifics proposals above before I commit though. older≠wiser 20:40, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC) PS, FWIW, there was some discussion about listdev vs. expand_list some time back (pre-template namespace) on MediaWiki talk:Listdev and MediaWiki talk:Expand list.

• Delete. Partly because it is redundant with {{expand-list}}, but more importantly because m[M]any (if not most) mere lists on Wikipedia are not encyclopedic, but rather mere indiscriminate collections of information. Often, (it seems to me), these "lists" become longer than the prose of the article, and significantly detract from the quality of the article itself. Lists, within Wikipedia, should not strive to be comprehensive, but rather indicative or exemplary. — MSchmahl 11:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC) (Note: {{expand-list}} is actually a redirect to {{devlist}}. But my main argument stands. — MSchmahl 12:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC))