Talk:Vahana

Untitled

What a sad sad attempt at translation. I'm listing on the translation requests gren 07:38, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've started the translation from the french article. If anyone sees anything wrong let me know on my talk page.--Shanel 20:43, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Manashthala?

Anyone know what the name of Durga's lion means in Sanskrit? Also, is this same name applied to the representations in which she rides a tiger?

The Renaming of article and WP:Merge

I strongly object to redirecting of the article to Vehicle (Hindu) (an article started on 11th august). The Vahana article is a much older article, started on 29 May 2005. A WP:CON should have been formed before merging an older article into a newer one, which is uncalled for. The issue should have been discussed first on this talk page before making the drastic , hasty move of merging . I have copied the talk page of Vehicle (Hindu) ahead withLisasmall's comments and suggestions. --Redtigerxyz 12:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments of New Article Vehicle (Hindu) Merged As Destination for Vahana by Lisasmall

I created this page about six hours ago because I could find no reference to this important aspect of Hinduism. After I had researched, written, and uploaded the Vehicle (Hindu) page, and modified the template to include it (with a note on the template's talk page), then I found the Vahana page which I have merged here according to WP:BOLD and the WP:MERGE instructions. By way of explanation:

Vahana v. Vehicle: vahana is a Sanskrit-based word and is not readily found in English dictionaries. Most native English-speakers will first see references to the vehicle of a Hindu deity, long before they see a reference to a vahana. Like me, they will not find what they are looking for if vahana is the article title. For the convenience of English speakers, in an English encyclopedia, the English term should be used.
The Vahana article now re-directs to Vehicle (Hindu) and the Vehicle (disambiguation) page has an entry for Vehicle (Hindu).
The material I uploaded was heavily sourced. The material I later merged in from Vahana was not, and had been tagged for it. I did my best to add sources where I could. In particular, the section titled "Origin folklore" still needs more sources, particularly for the confusing — and intriguing — folktale about Lord Ganesha bowing down to his own vehicle, the little mouse Mushika. Is this the origin of the Western myth about elephants being afraid of mice? Musophobia doesn't have the answer. It would be nice if it did, but I couldn't locate this tale in a brief Google search. I hope a later editor can do something verifiable about this.
The section called "Origin theories" is very, very short and the quote is very, very arcane for the average reader. I did my best to put in an explanation, but more material and/or additional verifiable theories would be helpful.
More illustrations would be helpful; right now, there's just one of Shiva's vehicle.
Please think long and hard before moving the list of vehicles and their corresponding deities further down in the article! Leaving it where it is allows most of the wikilinks to appear in one simple section, where almost all the first mentions of the deities and their vehicles occur. That means the explanatory sections which follow aren't excessively cluttered with blue, which makes them much more readable. The first mention of the gods and of the animals has already appeared, up in the list. If that list moves, then the wikilinks have to be re-inserted in the explanatory paragraphs.

I think the merged article is more complete than either of the original two were on their own, but there is still room for improvement. -- Lisasmall 07:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Counter arguments

Vahana can be loosely translated into English as "Vehicle", though "Mount" is a better translation. Vehicle by the Longman definition is "a thing such as car, bus etc. that is used for carrying people or things from one place to another". This definition does not describe a vahana and certainly not the essence of the word vahana is captured. Vahanas are much more than just mounts or vehicles, "symbolising or complementing the energy or character of the diety,they came to be integral iconography" - ref: "Animals in mythology, art and folklore" - Insight guide - Indian Wildlife, published by Discovery channel ISBN 981-234-555-8.( note the essay uses the words vahana and mount, not vechicle).
The Vehicle (Hindu) could have redirected to Vahana article (as now) and the Vehicle (disambiguation) page could have an entry for Vahana directly. (as now)
No one can deny the fact that Lisasmall has built and improved the article Vehicle (Hindu) but the user could have simply improved the Vahana article itself and merged "Vehicle (Hindu)"'s sourced info into it.
Even "I think the merged article is more complete than either of the original two were on their own, but there is still room for improvement". We can all work on sourcing on the articles and addition of pictures.--Redtigerxyz 14:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DYK column August 2007

A fact from Vahana appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 August 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Hinduism describes the peacock as the vehicle of several gods, including Ganesh, Skanda and Sarasvati?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/August.

Wikipedia

Hindu dieties????

Has anyone herad about these hindu dieties, probably they are regional dieties (not known to all Hindus like me).

--Redtigerxyz 14:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have the correct IAST for Shashti? Perhaps it is Ṣaṣṭhīdevī, who is a patron of children. She is mentioned on p. 700 of Vettam Mani's Purāṇic Encyclopedia (but it does not mention the cat).

The name Ṣaṣṭhī is listed as an alternate name for Skanda's wife Devasenā in E. Washburn Hopkin's Epic Mythology, p. 70, where he says she also has the alternate names Sinīvālī and Kuhū. The lunar association is that Skanda prefers the fifth or sixth day of the crescent month, hence Ṣaṣṭhī. These names and moon-phase associations are repeated on p. 102 where the Ṣaṣṭhī is said to be "lucky sixth day after birth". On p. 229 there is a story about how Indra sought a husband for Devasenā, and when Skanda was born and had conquered the world in six days, presented her to Skanda. They were married, and a list of various names for her is given. Hopkin's material is basically covering the epic period, and vahanas did not come into vogue until much later, so it is not surprising that we do not hear about the cat here. For the cat one will need Puranic period sources. We also need to be cautious about using the alternate names, because these sorts of name lists often indicate that there has been some sort of absorption or conflation of various local cults into one larger entity. This sort of agglomeration of different deities can result in composite figures with widely varying elements lumped together. Buddhipriya 06:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I looked in Shakti Gupta's Karttikeya: The Son of Shiva and found the spelling "Shasthi" listed in the Glossary on p. 80 with the definition "Number six personified". Unfortunately there is no entry for this term in the Index, so hunting for it in the text requires skimming the entire text. But it does support the previous citation by Hopkins with regard to the connection to number six. Buddhipriya 06:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sinīvālī is a minor Vedic goddess, and perhaps the prototype of the "patron of children" business as according to Ralph Griffith she was a "lunar Goddess, who aids the birth of children." (The Hymns of the Ṛgveda, p. 151, n. 6, commenting on RV 2.32.6). This is older strata needs to be used with caution for reasons mentioned above. For example, on p. 502, n. 6, commenting on RV 9.74.6, Griffith clearly differentiates Sinīvālī and Kuhū as distinctly different goddesses, but they are both identified with Ṣaṣṭhī by the Epic period by Hopkins. Buddhipriya 07:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the Arya and Joshi edition of the RV they have a commentary (volume 2, p. 78) on RV 2.32.6 that notes that Sinīvālī was the moon on the first day that it was visible. Kuhu (note masculine form ?) was the day of conjunction when the moon rises invisible. This further differentiates the two names, which were apparently conflated later. Buddhipriya 07:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I should have looked in Margaret Stutley's The Illustrated Dictionary of Hindu Iconography first, where there is an article on Ṣaṣṭhī on p. 127 that even mentions the cat. It says: "Ṣaṣṭhī A folk-goddess and protectress of children, sometimes regarded as an aspect of Durgā who is worshipped on the sixth day after the birth of a child. She is also called Skandamātā and is worshipped by Bengali women desiring offspring. The cat (mārjāra) is her mount. She carries a child (bāla), and her colour is yellow. Ṣaṣṭhī appears to have merged with the goddess Śrī (Lakṣmi)." 07:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Stutley on p. 54 has an entry for "Hari-Hara-putra v. Aiyanār; Śāsta." Stutley has two articles for those alternate names that are a bit long to enter right now. Apparently both are variants of Hari-Hara-putra, and sorting out the differences will require reading the articles. Aiyanār is a Tamil deity who is seldom depicted, but his mount is a black horse or a white elephant. (Stutley, pp. 4-5). Śāsta is a variant worshipped in Maylayalam areas, an ancient Dravidian deity taken over by Hinduism. The vahana of Śāsta is given in some sources as a white, four-tusked elephant, or occasionally a horse (Stutley, p. 127). There is no entry for Mommaima. Buddhipriya 07:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Buddhipriya. Please check

* Kalaratr : donkey--Redtigerxyz 11:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stutley (p. 63) has an entry for a Kālarātrī, saying "Name of the goddess (either Kālī or Durgā) when personifying Time (Kāla), and the last night of the age when the world is destroyed by the passing of Time." Various details are given, and her vahana is an ass. She is described in Mani (p. 373) as "The Devatā presiding over the night on the eve of death." and details of her desription in the Mahabharata are give by Mani, but he says nothing about a mount. Buddhipriya 08:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How is this link related with Vahana

Yana (Buddhism)--Redtigerxyz 08:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Is Karthikeyan really an elder brother?

It defines Karthikeyan as an elder brother of Lord Ganesha. But isn't he an younger one?--Akiyama(tentative) (talk) 07:24, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Looks someone took care of. Never mind.--Akiyama(tentative) (talk) 09:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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