Talk:English compound

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Original splitting discussion

I'm adding a heading, because having this above the TOC annoyed me. 210.9.139.122 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

I think it would be better to have a separate article for "compound adjective". I don't seem to be able to disambiguate it.--Dieter Simon 00:18 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

No, on second thoughts, I think now it should stay like this as compound nouns and adjectives are closely related in these combinations, in fact, lots of nouns do have a first modifier word which started out as an adjective. Sojbkutyo

hkc]k tx this must remain the way it is. Dieter Simon

128.148.208.201
Have changed "Whitehouse" to "White House". Also your remarks are valid to the extent that they apply to comparisons only, such as a black board as opposed to a white board. I have removed my original talk notes as they were'nt really helpful.--Dieter Simon 01:53 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi 162.84.190.111,

Please do not change English-spelled words to American spellings. See Wikipedia:Manual of style Usage and spelling. If an article has been written in one of the two spellings, it should not be changed to the other spelling. It runs the risk of "a haphazard mix of different spellings (it can be jarring to the reader)." I have changed "color" back to my original "colour". OK?
Also, what do you mean by "...and edit from colors on"? If you are a Wikipedian, you are quite entitled to edit this article, provided you play it by the book. We all welcome genuine additional material which you have added in the article, but it should be according to the rules.

One more thing, you also say in your added note "please insert an example of a Hyphenated compound...". Again, what do you mean? You just removed the two examples I had given in the original article, bridge-builder and single-mindedness. I hope that was a genuine error on your part. I have put them both back. --Dieter Simon 23:23, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Two articles

I think this should actually be two articles, a linguistic article on compound in general and another one on compounds in the English language, which most of this article is actually about. Burschik 15:58, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Page History of compound verb

cur) (last) 22:33, 3 Aug 2004 Dieter Simon m (Merge with "compound noun, adjective and verb" notice)
(cur) (last) 23:34, 15 Mar 2004 Hippietrail m (usage: "x" in place of a "y" -> "x" in place of "y". insert m-dashes; insert missing article "a")
(cur) (last) 12:24, 7 Mar 2004 Robbot m (Andre Engels - Robot-assisted disambiguation: Compound)
(cur) (last) 03:22, 16 Nov 2003 Rossami m (disambiguate "anglo")
(cur) (last) 23:12, 15 Aug 2003 Dieter Simon m (Link "phrasal verb")
(cur) (last) 22:49, 11 Aug 2003 Dieter Simon m (Linked "phrasal verb")
(cur) (last) 19:49, 11 Aug 2003 Ihcoyc (Other compound verbs)
(cur) (last) 03:25, 11 Aug 2003 Menchi m (complete cut-off sentence)
(cur) (last) 01:00, 10 Aug 2003 Dieter Simon m (Quotation marks)
(cur) (last) 22:55, 9 Aug 2003 Dieter Simon m (Changed the meaning of phrasal and prepositional verbs round)
(cur) (last) 23:28, 8 Aug 2003 Dieter Simon m (Linked "Compound noun and adjective". See Talk)
(cur) (last) 00:46, 8 Aug 2003 Ihcoyc m (Latin spelling)
(cur) (last) 00:10, 8 Aug 2003 Menchi m (subheadings; hierarchy)
(cur) (last) 23:10, 11 Jun 2003 Timwi m
(cur) (last) 23:09, 11 Jun 2003 Timwi m
(cur) (last) 22:55, 11 Jun 2003 Timwi m
(cur) (last) 22:48, 11 Jun 2003 Timwi m
(cur) (last) 22:44, 11 Jun 2003 Timwi m
(cur) (last) 21:05, 11 Jun 2003 Menchi m (publication year format)
(cur) (last) 16:01, 11 Jun 2003 Ihcoyc (distinguish phrasal and prepositional verbs)
(cur) (last) 23:45, 7 Jun 2003 Menchi (broader scope of definition (Dieter Simon's points))
(cur) (last) 02:39, 7 Jun 2003 Menchi m (subheading == Misuses ==)
(cur) (last) 02:35, 7 Jun 2003 Menchi (more misuse, "non-verbal" comp. v. (Ihcoyc's points))
(cur) (last) 02:03, 7 Jun 2003 Menchi m (reword: adj -> adv; disambiguate particle)
(cur) (last) 04:56, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi (Latin; plural)
(cur) (last) 04:33, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi m (rephrase: coined -> used in publication)
(cur) (last) 04:26, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi (+ intro; pronunciation; origin; more hyphen usage)
(cur) (last) 04:02, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi (correction on punctuation)
(cur) (last) 03:51, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi (redefine)
(cur) (last) 03:34, 5 Jun 2003 Kingturtle (defined)
(cur) (last) 03:31, 5 Jun 2003 Menchi m (#REDIRECT compound)

I was unable to move the page as changes had occurred in text and therefore was unable to move page history in normal way. Dieter Simon 01:22, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Are double compound verbs really that rare in other European languages? I suspect the Romance languages have retained the feature from Latin, and German certainly has double compound verbs such as "neubewerten" or "untervermieten". Burschik 09:20, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

On second thought, shouldn't one distinguish free and derivational morphemes? Burschik 09:32, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm answering this query here.Burschik

These two verbs are really "complex verbs" because they both have components formed from prepositions and adjectives (neu and unter) as well as inseparable prefixes (be- and ver-). However, neubewerten is a separable compound in its own right, for example, ich bewerte es neu, er bewertet es neu, etc. Untervermieten, in the other hand is inseparable, in that you can say, ich untervermiete, er untervermietet, etc., similarly to ich unterstehe mir, er untersteht sich, etc. No, you are quite right "double compounds" are quite common in German. I'll come back to your on the next query. Dieter Simon 22:45, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand, can you point me to the part of the article you are referring to here re free and derivational morphemes.

Yes, of course, one should differentiate between free and derivational morphemes. I think I see where you're heading. This is to do with highlighting either the grammar of the linguistics of compound words as you had indicated earlier, such as separating the linguistic in general compared with "English language" of your talk page article of July 19. Why not create a new article doing exactly that, go for it, I'm sure it would make a very interesting article.

However, if there is anything in particular you want to talk to me about in relation to this, don't hesitate to let me know. Anyway, Burschik, good luck with your plans. Dieter Simon 23:39, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All other queries by Burschik have been answered on his talk page. Dieter Simon 18:36, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

With regard to free and derivational morphemes: The article might point out the difference between purely derivational morphemes in condescend and free morphemes in highlight, for example. Moreover, highlight might not be such a good example, since I think it was originally a noun that was made a verb. On the other hand, it is a good example for that very common formation. Back-formation as in typewriter might also be interesting.

Two minor nits to pick: I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of out-Herod. Isn't herod a verb in this context, much like highlight? Also, while rare, this formation is productive (outpope the pope, outfox the fox). And I do not agree with your distinction between "neubewerten" and "untervermieten". I do say "Ich vermiete das Zimmer unter" rather than "Ich untervermiete das Zimmer".

P.S.: I'm thinking about a general linguistic article on compounds, but I don't really know how to start, yet. Cheers, Burschik 05:34, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi again, Burschik, perhaps I should say again that the only involvement I had with the “compound verb” side was that I moved it into the “c.n., a. and v. “ article after it had been created separately when it should have been included all along. So, yes, if you want to alter anything about out-Herod, do so. I must say though, I am not sure I can catch your drift in this regard, as it looks to me you are talking about a verb ‘’to herod’’? It must be ever so rare. However, do go ahead with it if you got good substantiation for it.

The other thing, of course, is our old friend, the inseparable ‘’untervermieten’’ , which I am afraid it is, inseparable. Do have look at this very useful German – I think it’s called a “collocation” site – and click here.

Clicking here, you will get "Wort:untervermieten Anzahl:43"

then click (Form(en): unvermietet

(this is the third person simgular form of the verb) and I hope I get this right

on page 2, the 17th example is: Nun, in Wien duchlaufen das Ronacher inzwischen die Musicals von Schwenkows Partner Rolf Deyhlrer….

on page 3, example 4: Natürlich birgt der Mietvertrag…

page 3, ex. 9: Hauptpächterin ist seit der Wende die Brauerei…

page 3, ex. 19: Hier sieht das Gesetz eine fristlose…

page 4, ex. 20: Wer untervermieted,…

page 5, ex. 3: Bekanntlich mietet…

page 5, ex. 8: 5 Prozen der Fläche…

page 6, ex. 10: Als die Wohngemeinschaft…

page 6, ex. 11: Wenn der Mieter seine berufliche…

page 6, ex. 13: Der Vermieter kann seinem Mieter…

All those examples are third person singular ones ‘’ er untervermieted’’, etc. and the site puts it all into perspective. I have always found it a fount of references which has always helped me out. Only in this respect, some of the sentences had me puzzled. Anyway, see what you can make of it.

Now, as for your more general linguistic article on compounds, you are really talking about the morphology of the compound words, aren’t you? Such as free morphemes Miete, vermieten and Zimmer; or derivational m.s as in ver-, or be-, etc., I can’t really see why you can’t either add additional paras in the existing article, or create a separate article with the header “(The) Morphology of compound noun, adjective and verb”, or even “ (The) Linguistics of c.n., a. and v.”. I know it’s a bit of a mouthful, but anything on those lines surely should do the trick?

Anyway, Burschik, I’ll leave it with you and your decision. Dieter Simon 23:26, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

With regard to "untervermieten", I am not convinced it is inseparable. The examples at the collocation site are all very well, but I did not intend to imply that it is always separated, only that it may be separated in certain contexts. Of this, I am still convinced, although I admit I lived in Bonn for 16 years, where people tend to separate even prepositions.

With regard to "out-Herod", I am not claiming that there is a verb "to Herod" in common use. I am merely musing whether Herod becomes a verb by being incorporated in the compound. In English, nouns can become verbs at the drop of a hat, frequently by null-derivation, as in microwave, telephone, etc., and the out-derivation is usually applied to verbs, as in outgrow, outrun, etc. On the other hand, maybe there are two distinct derivational morphemes "out". Burschik 06:56, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, I tell you what we can do. Why don't we ask our German Wikipedians and see what they have to say about "untervermieten"? Would you accept what they have to say? Yes, I accept that someone somewhere will say "ich vermiete unter" but that doesn't mean he even tries to speak German as other Germans speak it. To say "ich vermiete unter" requires that he leases or lets underneath "something" or "someone", but it doesn't mean he sublets or subleases. So, what do you say, shall we give the Germans the last say? Dieter Simon 01:46, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the German native speakers should definitely have the last say. Depending on how you define native speaker, however, I am one of them. I would never have offered so strong an opinion about a language I merely learned at school or university. Regards, Burschik 05:36, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps it might have been better if we both had put our cards on the table earlier. Congratulations on an extremely good article as it is now turning out to be. Of course, as you must have known, I too am German-born. Anyway, I think we'll leave the discussion there. All that remains to say is well-done on a well-organised, well-thought-out article! You could have done that all along, you know, couldn't you? Dieter Simon 09:17, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"For instance, the word butterfly, commonly thought to be a metathesis for flutter by, which the bugs do, is actually based on an old bubbe-maise that butterflies are petite witches that steal butter from windowsills." appears in several other online sources. Is there a copyright-issue here?

There's a dispute over spelling above. I do agree that it makes sense to be consistent. I suggest, though, that one is talking about British (rather than English) spellings.

Help me please ! Is " Brown coat " can be a compound noun or compound adjective ?

Latter Day Saint vs. Latter-day Saint

Should some mention of the difference between Latter Day Saint and Latter-day Saint be included on this page? The Jade Knight 08:30, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Compound adjective

"Blackboard jungle, leftover ingredients, gunmetal sheen, and green monkey disease are only a few examples."

No they're not. They are noun phrases. The compound adjectives within the phrases are Blackboard, leftover, gunmetal, green monkey.
- No they're not. A noun used attributively is not an adjective. Therefore, a compound noun used attributively is not a compound adjective. Well, leftover is an adjective, but the other three are nouns. jnestorius^(talk) 18:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree. These are not examples of compound adjectives. They're noun phrases.Chromite (talk) 22:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Compound Adjective

What about compound adjectives formed from a compound noun (i.e. Political Science) and an adjective (i.e. related)? What are the rules for such a construction? "...a news story about a [political science]-related event in the outside world." Me2000r 03:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Over-ripe?

Over-ripe is classified as preposition-adjective, but surely in this context over is acting as an adjective. (clicky).82.35.84.214 (talk) 23:35, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Acetic acid

The distinction made here is spurious. There is no difference in chemistry between 'a bitter solution producing vinegar or acetic acid' and 'a solution of acetic acid'. They are one and the same thing.Chromite (talk) 22:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While there is no difference to the physics of the final liquid, there is a difference between talking of "an acetic acid solution" and, for example, "the effect of temperature on the rate of acetic-acid solution". Or even "We shall use the acetic-acid solution!" (we'll solve the problem with the method involving acetic acid). It's certainly not an obvious case though. Surely we can collectively come up with a better one. 210.9.139.122 (talk) 13:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone taking hair from a big horse? ;-) 150.203.35.113 (talk) 07:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently not. :-/ 150.203.35.113 (talk) 07:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since we're using big words and correcting people's grammar, the saying is "One in the same". Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryandward (talk • contribs) 16:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lede sentence needs rewrite

The lede sentence is currently "A compound is a word composed of more than one free morpheme." This is one kind of compound, but some compounds are more than one word, in some cases hyphenated, e.g. freeze-dried and in some cases not, e.g. action figure. The lede sentence should be rewritten to allow for compounds comprised of two or more words.Anomalocaris (talk) 06:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

identify the constituent parts of the following adjective compounds:

i) Waterproof ii) Man-made iii)Long- awaited iv)Over-confident v) White collar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.115.95 (talk) 03:34, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

identify the constituent parts of the following adjective compounds:

i) Waterproof ii) Man-made iii)Long- awaited iv)Over-confident v) White collar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.115.95 (talk) 03:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

«Held a bank up»

This usage is marked as unlikely/incorrect in the article, but I would beg to differ. It sounds completely natural to me as a native GenAm speaker, and a quick Google search troves up millions of results of which a large percentage are legitimate usages in online newspaper articles, forum and blog postings and sundry other contexts ranging diversely in formality/register. Jesus H. Lincoln (talk) 01:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"To-do"

I'm not sure if "infinitive marker" plus verb needs to be hyphenated or not. I also think it's a relevant example so I think it merits being included as an example in the article with an appropriate explanation of whether or not "to do" needs to be hyphenated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjbeyeler (talk • contribs) 11:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Examples By Word Class Table

I don't understand why this table, which lists entries such as freeze-dry, a verb–verb compound that acts as a verb, is in the section titled "Compound Nouns'.