Talk:Omar Torrijos

Torrijo's death

I want to make it clear that I rather doubt the circumstances of Torrijo's death claimed by John Perkins, but I certainly agree that the paragraph as it now stands should be part of the article.CSTAR

Noriega, in his book, says that many were suspicious about the circumstances of Torrijos' death. --Herschelkrustofsky 02:08, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It was well known inside Torrijo was assassinated.

It's not simply "do you believe it or do you not?", I believe that it was an assassination by the CIA or some subsidary simply because of circumstance. Torrijo, as well as his Ecuadorian counterpart, both died in plane crashes less than a month after meeting with corporate officials from America, who were angered by their plans to nationalize oil and other prime resources. Once, I would dismiss it as coincidence, but it also happened in Iraq, Iran, Ecuador, Guatemala, and Torrijo's successor in Panama. It isn't coincidence when it's happened seven or more times.

Cam 04:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course it does, the United States would never harm a fly, let alone assassinate its political enemies. Never.

Rob —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:11, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

The citation for the quotation below is incorrect as are the facts presented. United States Special Forces personnel were NOT permitted to go to the crash site by the government of Panama. The helicopter was turned around mid flight and returned to Ft. Gulick then home of 3/7th SFG. I can however tell you that US News & World Report erroneously reported that US SF recovered the crash site. I did not save the magazine. The citation is "I was there at the time and have personal knowledge of this non-happening."

"The crash site was located several days later, and the body of General Torrijos was recovered by a Special Forces team in the first few days of August.[3] (Spanish) El País (Spain) article from August 15, 1981."

The article cited above states that Panama rejects the theory that sabotage was responsible for the plane crash. Pilot error is their conclusion. I along with CSTAR do not believe that to be the cause of the crash. Jogershok (talk) 19:32, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

CIA or Noriega?

I extremely doubt anything Perkins wrote about Torrijos, if you read his book he paints Torrijos like a paragon of virtue. His description of Torrijos pretty much lost all credibility he had with me regarding Panama, or well, anything. A lot of people (including me) believe it was Noriega who had the bomb planted, based in part on the accusations of Diaz Herrera to La Prensa. Noriega said it was the CIA. Cute. Noriega was the CIA's guy. But I don't think he did it on CIA orders. Torrijos, while a dictator, could at least play the populist role, and while not the most subtle operator, he was far more palatable to our interests than Noriega. Noriega (and Paredes) were the only ones that really stood to benefit from this, and it fits Noreiga far better. Aapold (talk) 13:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Recent cuts

-US offered to return the Noriega documents to Panama in 1993

https://www.bu.edu/ilj/files/2014/05/Cox-THE-LOST-ARCHIVES-OF-NORIEGA.pdf

-A summary of Noriega's documents was publicly disclosed albeit heavily redacted; they do not appear to reference any assassination allegations despite revealing other incriminating info.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/09/04/noriega-defense-team-vows-to-detail-secret-us-deals/4e867106-d992-40c1-af3f-954f9ddb3377/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.124.40.227 (talk) 13:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: recent edit

A recent edit referred to Arnulfo Arias as "a known racist". I reverted the edits because they did not belong here in this article and were not accompanied by appropriate documentation. The fact is though that Arias indeed was at some points of his political career arguably a racist: anti-asian, anti-semitic and anti-afropanamanian. However, these facts (with appropriate documentation) belong in the Arias article. To say something is "well-known" is not acceptable.--CSTAR 1 July 2005 04:42 (UTC)

I find it fascinating that Wikipedia claims to be a neutral site yet it paints Torrijos in a tight corner with "military dictators" and uses a reference from Manuel Noriega to further this connection, at least by association. Rumors abound in the bio with the more detailed ones focusing on Torrijos as evil and his assassination as hearsay. Who really owns Wikipedia?

Note: I corrected the article to reflect that Torrijos was never President of Panama. This is an important distinction.

"Military Dictator" Are you implying, my dear sir, that Torrijos wasn't one? And that his connection with Norieaga was coincidental and acausal? First of all, he wasn't the head of a democratic government, now was he? He wasn't elected. And he wasn't a civilian. Now, what do you call the head of an undemocratic government lead by a non-civilian? Just curious. Second, Noriega was his "bag man" from way back, as Torrijos himself stated many times. These two were very close. Also, Torrijos recieved a proper US salary since the 50's, so if the US did kill him (something for which there is no documentation, but if there is, by all means), they merely took down one of his own. Furthermore, with the 90 million he STOLE from the "Caja del Seguro Social", his involvement with the imprisonment, torture and murder of several political oponents and numerous other crimes, the inconstitionality at the root of his government and his servility towards the US, I say we can make a pretty fair assestment of wether or not this was a good military dictator or an evil one, dontcha think? Who owns wikipedia? Hopefully someoene who, unlike yourself, knows history.

removal of "democratically elected"

A recent edit removed the words describing Arnulfo Arias as having been democratically elected (when removed from power by Torrijos & Martinez). Why? Whatever people's opinions of Arias may be, there is no denying he won the 1968 election. The current wording implies that Arias had been in power due to a coup in the 30s, this is completely misleading. He had three previous stints in power, each one ended with military removal. The statement that the Torrijos coup removed a democratically elected president is correct and should be restored.

Preceded by Boris Martinez

Most people probably don't recall that Boris Martinez briefly was in charge before Torrijos deposed him. I don't think he even has a wikipedia article. Aapold (talk) 19:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thought and note for posterity...

The aircraft crashed during "severe" weather. I've been flying the Twin Otter half my life in the winter storms on the North Norwegian coast. I've flown it over the Norwegian sea outside the Lofoten islands of north Norway during a full storm. The twin Otter was the work horse of the Norwegian coast a thousand kilometers above the arctic circle and had two serious accidents (both due to human error) during its decades of service. So, Yeah. sure it crashed "during severe weather conditions" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nunamiut (talk • contribs) 22:35, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Torrijos' Father (José María Torrijos Rada)

I added this note, thought I'd cite (sort of) and add a few notes that aren't really relevant to the article. My grandfather (Manuel Celerin) in Panama was for a time a school inspector in various interior provinces, and on one notable occasion visited a school in Veraguas where Torrijos' father, a colombian immigrant named José María Torrijos, was supposed to be teaching. He found the students in the school, but no teacher. Inquiring, they told him to look in the local cantina, and he found him there, drunk. When informed he was going to be fired, José Torrijos begged him to not do so, pleading on his knees, for the sake of his large family (12 children) that he supported. My grandfather relented, promising to return a few weeks later to check on his performance (he had to travel by horse to these locations). He (my grandfather) was transferred to the province of Panama almost immediately after that and never got a chance to follow up.

Omar Torrijos made a point later of visiting the town in Columbia where his father originally came from, and donated money for the construction of a school in his name. Aapold (talk) 00:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Mitrokhin's book, plus no citations

there are almost no sources, and Mitrokhins book shows him as a Soviet pawn.Tallicfan20 (talk) 04:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Article update

I felt as though information was lacking regarding Omar Torrijos. I feel more information is needed regarding his life than his death. Tlshaman (talk) 17:59, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Speculations On Crash section: regarding Reagan; regarding crash itself.

Torrijos died shortly after the inauguration of US President Ronald Reagan, just two months after Ecuadorian president Jaime Roldós died in strikingly similar circumstances. Like other Republicans when the canal treaty came before the U.S. Senate, Reagan alleged that Democratic U.S. president Jimmy Carter had "given away" a U.S. asset—the Panama Canal and the Canal Zone. In the 1976 Republican primaries, Reagan claimed regarding the canal: "We built it, we paid for it, it's ours, and we should tell Torrijos and company that we are going to keep it."[15]

Antipathy within the Reagan administration can also be adduced from Torrijos's sympathy (and rumoured support) for Nicaragua's Sandinista National Liberation Front, whose popular revolution in mid-1979 had toppled the U.S.-backed Somoza dictatorship.

He didnt die "shortly" after Reagan's inauguration. It was 6 months later. The paragraphs seem to exist to give life to a US/Reagan angle on Torrijo's death. (Apparently over "revenge" for the Canal Treaty, which seems implausible.) In any case, I don't see how very much of this should be kept in the article. Perhaps one sentence relating to fingerpointing in US' direction, but no more.

Also, I don't see anything here (or online), regarding any investigation of the crash. Typically, it would be pretty easy to determine, from the debris pattern, if a plane crashed intact or if it exploded mid-air. Was there any official investigation? I recently watched "The Dictators Playbook S01E04: Manuel Noriega" and it was claimed (without any references, unfortunately) that "foul play was ruled out." Albeit, I don't see how any independent body could have performed an investigation while Noriega was in complete power there. Especially when Noriega might have actually orchestrated it himself: he had the means, opportunity, and a huge motive. --Petzl (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Rabiblancos and Yeye are not even remotely the same thing

Yeye is a term to describe a preppy person who thinks of themselves as special because of affluence. Rabiblancos is more literally anybody who is light skinned and/or white. 73.7.106.236 (talk) 19:07, 31 March 2024 (UTC)