Talk:John Munch

Questions

Questions:

• what is known of Munch's fictional biography from his TV show episodes?
• what about continuity?
• relationships between producers, writers, of different shows containing Munch?
• who "owns" the fictional character of Munch?

-- The Anome 09:09, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

It's hard to tell as the two conflict. It's best just to let individuals decide. Although for me reading this over I personally side most with the history of him presented in Homicide. Mostly because that's the origin of the character and he had a greater role on that show. However I'm also the type who still thinks of Frasier as the only son of two scientists. Best to let readers decide on their own.--T. Anthony 13:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

With regard to ownership, presumably whoever owns the show Homicide originally owned the character. -- Beardo 04:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Something I discovered today after seeing the Homicide: Life On The Street episode "Black and Blue" (2nd season) for the first time. Munch says the word "patronize" (twice, actually) and pronounces it "pātronize" when talking to Detective Bolander. Interestingly, however, in a first season episode of Law & Order: SVU entitled "Uncivilized", Munch corrects a teenage witness who pronounces the word the same way. Munch explains that the correct pronunciation of the word is "pătronize".

When I first saw the SVU episode, I assumed that Munch's revised pronunciation was correct, though I had never heard it pronounced that way. Curious if anyone knows if "pătronize" really is correct when using the word in that way (as in, "to speak in a patronizing manner"). I would assume that "pātronize" is still correct when talking about "patronizing a retail establishment", and it would seem that the 'wiktionary' pronunciation, as best I can tell (would be nice if there were a key to those IPA symbols) is "pātronize". Grammaticus Repairo 02:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I've heard it pronounced both ways, and I think both are correct. For me, saying "pātronize" means to frequent an establishment while "pătronize" means to be degrading to someone. Just my two cents. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 11:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

A follow-up...In one of the first episodes of Season 4 (forgot which one), Munch is having a conversation with Howard in which he says "pātronize". Howard replies, using the same term in the same context and pronounces it "pătronize". When Munch responds to her reply, he uses the term yet again, and again says "pātronize". So apparently somewhere between season 4 of Homicide and season 1 of SVU, Munch learned the proper pronunciation for that context of the word. BTW, I notice little things like this because I have no life. Grammaticus Repairo 05:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Crossovers

It says in the article that:

"Munch's appearance on Trial by Jury, which aired April 15, 2005, made him the third fictional character played by a single actor to appear on six different television shows."

Does anyone know who the other two actors are who have done this many crossovers? I can't think of any. --ScottyBoy900Q∞ 22:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I was wondering that too. Someone in All in the Family, or Happy Days, and the various spin offs thereof? Looking it up Anson Williams played "Potsie" in Love American Style(the origin of the character), Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, and Sabrina The Teenage Witch. That's just four. I'm not finding much more with All in the Family actors either.--T. Anthony 09:28, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

According to IMDB, the other two are John Ratzenberger and George Wendt who played Cliff Clavin and Norm Peterson in Cheers, St. Elsewhere, The Tortellis, Wings, The Simpsons and Frasier. I do wonder if Simpsons appearances should count ! -- Beardo 04:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Further, elsewhere IMDB says four actors achieved that - the other being Paul Fusco - in "ALF", "ALF: The Animated Series", "AlfTales", "Matlock", "Blossom" and "The Love Boat: The Next Wave" - but lists two further shows - implying he has made eight, one more that Munch ! -- Beardo 05:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Was he not in a Lois & Clark: New Adv. of Superman, as a Metropolis (DC Comics, New York) Detective as well?

Almost. A Metropolis police inspector (who was not Munch). raekwon 01:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Was Munch in A Very Brady Sequel? I remember a detective played by Belzer appeared for a cameo role, but I'm not sure if he was credited as Munch or not. --Switch 05:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Man, the SVU version of Munch is a lifeless abomination. that show sucks Bwithh 04:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I came to love Munch watching him in the early SVU episodes, but now, after having seen the entire Homicide series, I would have to agree with Bwithh. Compared to the Homicide character, Munch seems to have been stripped of his soul. The fault belongs to the writers working on SVU for not keeping alive the spirit of the character (not to mention their doing apparently only about 20 minutes of research before introducing inconsistent background details into the script--you would think, given the numerous crossovers Law and Order had done with Homicide during its 7-year run, the writers would give Munch the respect he's due!). Pity they didn't bring over some of the writing team from Homicide also, after it ended its run. As much as I like the L&O franchises, Homicide puts it to shame.

I like the original L&O, but it's a different kind of series. Homicide is largely character-oriented, L&O has always been plot-oriented. SVU is a bit more character-oriented than others in the franchise, but this is still basically true. For Munch's character to be given as much depth/background as he was on Homicide wouldn't fit this kind of series. Nevertheless I almost wished he'd crossed into a more character-oriented series/franchise, nothing on NBC readily comes to mind though, or that they'd picked a more minor Homicide character to cross-over to SVU. Like maybe Julianna Cox who was said to have left Baltimore. (Bizarrely she has one of the best articles of the Homicide characters)--T. Anthony 08:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I can accept the lack of depth of his SVU character better than I can accept the flagrant altering of his biographical details. Okay, so maybe his character isn't portrayed as vibrantly as it was when he was in Homicide, but to completely disregard so many years of well-established background information is just plain disrespectful. -Grammaticus Repairo 22:30, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of crossovers, this article states that Munch "first appeared as a central character in the TV series Homicide: Life on the Street, as a homicide detective." I don't follow this show, but ran across the character while checking out X-Files stuff. IMDB dates the X-Files episode as the first appearance of this character. Can anyone confirm this? MArcane 18:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The IMDb clearly does NOT date the X-Files episode as the first appearance. According to the IMDb, the X-Files episode aired in '97, but Belzer had been playing Munch since '93. Minaker (talk) 10:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The X Files episode is set in 1989. The Earlist time we see him, not the first, maybe that is what it meant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.144.14.185 (talk) 00:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm going through Homicide: Life on the Street again, and I noticed that in the episode "Partners" (S03E11), he actually mentions "The X-Files" as a show, almost three years before he appears on the X-Files. --Funkychinaman (talk) 22:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC) "Right, it's 9 o'clock, people are still at home, watching 'The X-Files'."

Belzer first appeared as Munch in HOMICIDE starting in 1993. In 1996 he appeared in A VERY BRADY SEQUEL as a "LAPD Detective" (not as Munch), and in 1999 on MAD ABOUT YOU as "Detective Sharp". In 1994 he was "Inspector Henderson" on several episodes of LOIS & CLARK. According to IMDB, he was John Munch on HOMICIDE: LIFE ON THE STREET (1993-99, many episodes); LAW & ORDER:SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT (1999-2016, many ep.); X-FILES (1997, 1 ep.); HOMICIDE:THE MOVIE (2000); LAW & ORDER (1996-2000, 4 ep.); THE BEAT (2000, 1 ep.); LAW & ORDER:TRIAL BY JURY (2005, 1 ep.); ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT (2005, 1 ep. as Munch, 1 ep. as himself); THE WIRE (2008, 1 ep.); 3d ROCK (2011, 1 ep. as Munch, 2013, 1 ep. as himself); UNBREAKABLE KIMMY SCHMIDT (2015, 1 ep.). I count ten different series. Sussmanbern (talk) 05:48, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

External Links

http://www.munchology.com is either dead or not up yet, anyone know for sure?

Kirbyrocks 05:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Amy Solwey (sp?)

I saw the SVU episode last night in which Munch confronts Amy Solwey (Marlee Matlin) about the possibility of her buying a black market kidney. She and Munch apparently had some fairly deep connection that I wasn't aware of; can someone elaborate on this for the article? Willbyr 18:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I just saw the previous episode "Painless" where they become close. Amy wants to commit suicide by refusing dialysis and refusing a kidney transplant so she won't spend the rest of her life in jail. Munch reveals that his father committed suicide, and he blamed himself. The episode ends with it seeming like he convinced her that it's worth it to live. -JNighthawk 06:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

It says that he was the third actor to appear in six different televison shows, but at the time he had been in seven. Is this a typo or does this need to be researched more?

Plot hole

Ok, maybe not really a plot hole, per se, but if Munch is Jewish (he is) then why would he have the name John? John is a Christian name. The Jewish equivalent would be Jon (Jonathan). Ideas? --Cao Wei 06:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Because, remarkably, people are allowed to name their children whatever they want without going to their clergyman/MP for approval and spelling corrections. --Switch 08:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Sarcasm noted. I asked my mom, she said that Dick Wolf messed up. I'll tend to believe her. Cao Wei 04:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't - Dick Wolf didn't create the character. The creator of Homicide: Life on the Street, whose name escapes me at this moment (Nick something?), did. Perhaps he messed up, or perhaps again he didn't care. Perhaps Munch's father wasn't Jewish, and he named him. Perhaps Munch changed his name to affirm his lack of religion. There are any number of possible explanations. --Switch 05:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Paul Attanasio and Tom Fontana are the creators of Homicide. It was executive produced by Barry Levinson. Jewish men named John include John Rubinstein and John Stossel.--T. Anthony 05:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Since Levinson is Jewish, I doubt that this is an error. -- Beardo 19:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

According to John (name), John and Jonathan are two separate names, both deriving from different Jewish names. Also, it says that John has gone back into "Israeli Hebrew as the name שון Shon". -- Beardo 20:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd also note that John the Baptist was a Jew, much like the Man he followed. 99.231.176.65 (talk) 03:41, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Sesame Street Munch

Anyone know where to get a screencap of this? I'd love to see what his puppet looks like. --82.9.43.195 12:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, are we counting the Sesame Street episode where a puppet-likeness of him appears as another crossover so that we can say he appeared on 8 shows instead of 7?!? If so, I think we are on rather shaky ground...

Unless, that is, he actually provided the voice talent for this episode...anyone know? -Grammaticus Repairo 07:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC) According to Richard Belzer himself, Munch has appeared on 11 different programs, the most of any character. This was from TMZ on 9/5/2011. He didn't mention the specific prgrams, but I would assume that Belzer is a good authority.

I assumed Belzer provided the voicce, though I have never seen the episode. If not, then it should probably be removed, yes. --Switch 12:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Can ANYONE find a reliable source on who actually voices the puppet character? Preferabley from a PBS source? The only place I can find any mention of it is in an online blog/Q&A with Dick Wolf in which he states that Chris, Mariska and Belzer will provide voices in the sketch (which he himself approved). -Grammaticus Repairo 03:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

IMDB has him as providing the voice: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001938/ --81.102.216.3 15:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It's on YouTube; search for "Special Letters Unit". And yeah, I think the character just added another show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdiamante (talk • contribs) 19:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The parody of munch was not played by Belzer, but I think it deserves a mention in the article. -Logotu (talk) 17:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

If he voiced the muppet it should be on here, if he didnt it should be mentioned but not included in the appearance total. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.178.105 (talk) 07:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Munch explains the meaning of "lazy" in episode 4138 of Sesame Street. He does not say his name but is sitting behind his Law and Order: SVU desk. Approximately 14 minutes into the episode.

Universal Cop

I'm removing the phrase He is known as the universal cop for televison. Not only is this unsupported, but it's weasel-y. Known by whom? If it is intended to refer to his many appearances in other shows, that's covered in its own section. SixFourThree (talk) 19:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Coincidentally?

(Coincidentally, Belzer's father also killed himself.)

Really? This is just a coincidence? Considering that Munch, at least as originally conceived on Homicide, was basically just a cipher for Belzer, it seems quite likely that this was not a coincidence at all. We certainly shouldn't imply that it was one unless we can provide some support for that statement. john k (talk) 13:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Civil Liberties

The thing that makes John Munch my favourite SVU charater is his love for civil liberties (He hates the patriot act, and consistently makes comments about due process and civil liberties). In the most recent episode there was even a civil liberties lawyer where they had a conversation about civil liberties.

I am not an expert enough to be the one to make a section on it, but it certainly is deserving of one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.6.201.84 (talk) 02:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

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Episode appearances table

The table in the article is SVU only episode appearances, a complementary table for Homicide is needed -- 67.70.27.246 (talk) 01:39, 3 April 2021 (UTC)