Talk:Neman

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	Review comments: Renata (talk) 09:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, Neman → Neman (disambiguation), Moved, 3 April 2017, discussion
RM, Neman (river) → Neman, Moved, 1 September 2017, discussion

Udra=Oder(Otter), Veisla=Vysla, Nemunas=Rubon, Prieglius=Chronos are originaly Lithuanian rivers

All those Lithuanian names Udra, Veisla, Prieglius and Nemunas were named long before poles and germans appeared in the region.

kindergarden

Shouldn't this be at "Niemen"? That's what I've always seen it as. john k 20:21, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, it should be at "Nemunas" which is both a lithuanian and english name. Neman is an anglicized russian name. Space Cadet 20:27, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

On what basis do you say "Nemunas" is the English name? I've never seen it before. The river, it should be noted, flows through Russian and Belarussian territory as well as Lithuanian. A google search of English pages revels 20,000 for "Niemen" and only 5,000 for "Nemunas". On the other hand, a comparison of "Niemen River", "Nemunas River" and "Neman River" puts "Nemunas River" in the lead...I dunno. Columbia has its article at "Neman River", as does Britannica... john k 21:11, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Odra river flows through Poland (a bit through Czech republic) and only alongside part of German border, but the "official English name" is supposedly Oder. Russian name is Nyeman. But I'll go along with "Neman". The Polish name Niemen would raise hell in edit wars, considering the semi-official anti-Polish profile of the WIKI.Space Cadet 02:53, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I thought I was the anti-Polish zealot. At any rate, "Niemen River" is most commonly used in historical descriptions. For instance, one always says that Napoleon and Alexander met on a raft in the Niemen (not the Memel or the Neman or the Nemunas). But it seems to be idiosyncratic enough that just going with Britannica and Columbia would probably be best. john k 19:49, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just to add, that the Oder/Odra River is "supposed to be" called the Oder because that is what people call it in English. I have no particular idea what people use in English for the Neman/Niemen/Nemunas/Memel River. My Lonely Planet guide says "Nemunas", encyclopedias seem to use "Neman", history books usually use "Niemen"...I can only say that Memel is almost certainly inappropriate... john k 20:00, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just Google "Odra river" and see if Odra is not used in English. I'm definitely behind going with Britannica on the Neman issue. Space Cadet 20:52, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Odra is sometimes used in English, certainly. As, apparently, is Nemunas. With river names, the local names are often used when referring to them. For instance, we also see English usage of, say, Maas River, or Rhein River, occasionally. But the more generally used names are Oder, Meuse, Rhine. I don't particularly mind articles specifically about Polish geography using "Odra" to describe the river, so long as the article itself remains at Oder, but you're the one who's always on about consistency... john k 21:52, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes I am. Space Cadet 22:53, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Let me tell you as really it is: actual name of this river always was, is now and always will be Nemunas. All other names are different interpretations on russicized name (Nieman). So the real article should point to Nemunas and all other variations should be redirects to it eLNuko 08:44, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting statement in which the definition of "always" seems to exclude a few centuries. The 1911 Britannica mentioned Memel (as river and town), but not Nemunas nor Neman (nor Klaipeda). Denying such facts is nationalistic POV, especially regarding the forceful way in which Lithuania took the Memelland region north of the Memel away from Germany in 1923. The south bank of the Memel remained undisputedly German until 1945, now its Russian. I encourage editors to establish NPOV on these issues. --Matthead 20:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BE 1911 usese the name "Niemen", See Talk:Memel (disambiguation) --Philip Baird Shearer 09:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nemunas is notable in English, take a look, the name Nemunas is of Baltic origin. Alternative names are allowed in lead.--Lokyz 14:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate names

How about if we restrict its alternate names to those countries in which it currently flows, borders, or (by historic definitions) has flowed? That would eliminate its Greek and, I think, Estonian names. Novickas 15:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Any proofs of greeks calling it Χρόνος? Sounds like some unofficial name and added by neo-paganists guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.240.42.28 (talk) 01:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek name isn't relevant anyway, it doesn't flow through Greece. I'll remove it. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fishportal construction development to Neman river?

Hello,

Does anyone know is there any project or research going on to build fish portal to the river? I read that Neman river is major stream and non of sea fishes can enter to their sprawning springs. Neman river -before building damp. Was major salomon etc. fishes to travel.

Possible Illyrian etymology?

Hi. I accidentaly found (reading an article about Prokletije mountains) very interesting thing that Nemuna in Albanian means cursed. Maybe it could be any etymological conections with ancient Illyria? Like also that story about Chronos River somewhere in the north or possible conections between Lithuania and Thrace (as sugested by Jonas Basanavičius). Because it doesn't seem that Nemunas could be Baltic name. Hugo.arg (talk) 20:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You should take into account pronouncation - Nemunas in lithuanian is pronounced as Ņamunas. As for river name as Cursed river - it's unheard combination in this region, because rivers are thought to be source of fertility - there are quite many Sacred rivers, though. Nemunas river flows through land, that initially was not lithuanian and was inhabitated by baltic prussian(not germans!) and Yatvingians. Since western baltics are quite diverse from eastern baltics, there could be some different explanation for the name. 92.40.248.76 (talk) 23:40, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 11:36, 17 October 2015 (UTC) – Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 19:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 September 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved in accord with the consensus formed below. (closed by page mover) Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 18:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Neman (river) → Neman – Main meaning. There rest are derived. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:25, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support, a few people with that surname but appears PT according to Google Books, Neman (river) redirects here anyway - https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Neman Zarcadia (talk) 03:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination and Zarcadia. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 05:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per earlier RM at Talk:Neman (disambiguation) conclusion was Neman was to redirect to Neman River. As with other Category:Rivers of Grodno Region if River is needed per WP:NATURAL it should be River not (river). In ictu oculi (talk) 07:13, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I participated at the RM at Talk:Neman (disambiguation), but its scope was limited to moving the dab page. I support moving to either Neman or Neman River; now it's an issue of WP:COMMONNAME. The best evidence I can provide is GBook search for "the Neman" – perusing the results, it seems that "Neman River" is slightly more common form than bare "Neman". ngram for "the Neman"/"the Neman River" also shows roughly split usage, assuming that hits for the latter are also counted in the former. No such user (talk) 14:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominated. If usage between "Neman" and "Neman River" is split, then we should go with the more concise Neman. And no primaryh topic question becuse it's already a redirect. — Amakuru (talk) 15:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Through Prussia

At the moment, it says "In German, the part of the river flowing in what for a time was Prussia...". I would say that essentially over the total duration that the entity called Prussia even existed (as opposed to the region inhabitated by the old Prussians) it included this part of the river. Note that this is also not about Prussia (region), because this region still exists. Thus, I propose to replace "flowing in what for a time was Prussia" by "flowing through historic Prussia". I announce this on the talk page so as not to raise irredentist (or revisionist or whatever) fears if I change it directly. Seattle Jörg (talk) 11:20, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Niemen is what English speakers call it

Isn't this supposedly Wikipedia in English, not Lithuanian? 99.229.116.186 (talk) 00:09, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]