Talk:Hard bop

Hard bop is within the scope of the Music genres task force of the Music project, a user driven attempt to clean up and standardize music genre articles on Wikipedia. Please visit the task force guidelines page for ideas on how to structure a genre article and help us assess and improve genre articles to good article status.Music/Music genres task forceWikipedia:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forceTemplate:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forcemusic genre articles

Jazz Top‑importance

	Jazz portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jazz, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of jazz on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JazzWikipedia:WikiProject JazzTemplate:WikiProject JazzJazz articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Question

I don't understand why "Brilliant Corners" is considered to be "hard bop". To my ears, it's essentially a bebop song. Can some one explain to me how it is an important defining hard bop tune?

-Pat M

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.35.193.55 (talk) 19:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My music writing "chops" aren't good enough to handle this task, but I think there should be a section in this article called Musical Style, just as in the Bebop article.

One thing that could be mentioned is that the theme (or "head") that introduces a Hard bop composition is usually played in harmony between two of the lead instruments, which should be contrasted with the heads of Bebop tunes, which are played in unison.

DarknessEnthroned (talk) 04:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think there should be more emphasis on Hard Bop as a continuation of Bebop as a strong contrast to the cool jazz movement, when I read this article I get the impression that it's all gospel and rhythm and blues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.216.145.41 (talk) 02:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology

"Hard bop is a style of jazz that is an extension of bebop (or "bop") music."

The term "Bop" was indeed first applied to Bebop, but nowadays is used as a general term denoting bebop, hard bop and post bop genres. 82.176.214.123 (talk) 11:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Walkin' marks the beginning of the hard bop movement?

This statement is sprinkled through wp (it is/was also in the Miles Davis page). Supporting evidence, other than a single Ashley Kahn reference which is more the exception than the rule in the jazz literature available to me? --Alien Life Form (talk) 14:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History

Compare the unsourced first paragraph in the "History" section with recent comments by Michael Cuscuna (whom I would consider to be some kind of authority on the matter). As it is, the entire article lists a couple of website but has no footnote citations. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-written a good portion of the section, using references. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 06:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't Jazz Messenger be Quintet NOT quartet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.195.2 (talk) 23:47, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Other hard bop musicians" section too long

There are 67 names there. It seems like the list in this article should be more focused, to between 10-25 quintessential players. Can we come to a consensus as to which musicians to include (Blakey, Silver, etc.)?BassHistory (talk) 05:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Given the musicians mentioned in the prose text, and given the standalone list at List of hard bop musicians, I don't believe that we need this section at all. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree: better to centralise on that one list . (Also makes it easier to monitor and manage vanity intrusions.) AllyD (talk) 18:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are all of the musicians from the list on this page also mentioned there? If so, we could simply delete this list then.BassHistory (talk) 05:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately there are a few differences to work through before deleting (Carl Allen for one). AllyD (talk) 08:30, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've ported across those that I think should be added to the List article (and found a couple of questionable biogs along the way). I've not ported everyone - omitting some where the article doesn't explicitly mention Hard Bop. Maybe others want to have a look first, but I reckon this section could go now. AllyD (talk) 18:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we're good. I wondered about LaMont Johnson, but I only know him from Jackie McLean albums like Demon's Dance which I'm not sure is hard bop (but it's not as out as free jazz, either). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I moved Walter Bishop Jr, Lewis Nash and Larry Ridley, I didn't moveJimmy Garrison, Charles Tolliver, Larry Willis (although he did play on Infinity (Lee Morgan album)), and I don't know enough about Larry Ritchie or Hotep Idris Galeta. I went through every one name by name, I move that we delete the list.BassHistory (talk) 12:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think we're all agreed on the ones which were of dubious relevance here. I moved across LaMont Johnson and have now deleted the section. AllyD (talk) 13:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hentoff liner notes

The article currently reads, "According to Nat Hentoff in his 1957 liner notes for the Blakey Columbia LP of the same name...." As written, this suggests there was an album called Blakey in 1957 on Columbia, which does not seem to be the case. I assume the statement refers to the album The Jazz Messengers (aka Art Blakey with the Original Jazz Messengers), but that's from 1956. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:41, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a 1957 album called Hard Bop that has liner notes by Hentoff. [1]

BassHistory (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Add a few signature rifts of hard bop?

Could you add a few signature rifts of hard bop, particularly that distinguish it from be-bop? Much better than words! I notice that Claude Debussy - gets 28 clips, some quite long.
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:64C7:92A:F58E:B5EC (talk) 04:02, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford[reply]